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Understanding the Fretboard better

#21
InhumanResource said:
Learn to practice everything 2 octaves, up and down, and in all keys.

This will make you be intentional about what key you’re in and get used to thinking of the fretboard this way.

So when you are practicing your arpeggios, don’t think “I’m doing minor 7 arps”. Think “I am doing a C minor 7 arp. Now I am doing a G minor 7 arp. Now I am doing a D minor 7 arp.” And so on. Bonus points if you take the time to name each note as you go up and down. Take your time, do it slowly and correctly.

If you’re studying jazz, practice reading chord charts (go as slow as you need to!!) and learn melodies too. This stuff is tedious but you’ll come away knowing the fretboard really well.
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This is it ^^^

Practice thinking of the note names of every note you play.

Practice your triads. Start with major and minor. Again, think note name of triads. You can use your shapes to help get off the ground. But be thinking note name while doing it. This may be mentally exhausting at first, but it will get easier!

Learning to read sheet music will help tons. Start reading anything you can get your hands on.

In a year or two you'll be good. The fretboard will "light-up" with available notes.

Happy practicing
 
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#23
Yes, ditch the tabs, as has already been said a bunch of times. I DO understand the OP's struggle in coming to terms with "finding" where all the notes are instantly, without having to "deduce" it every time. I've spent the bulk of my professional life as a pianist and violinist/violist and on those two instruments, the ear-to-sound creation process is pretty much all instinct at this point... not always successful (being human and all), but still pretty much "no thought necessary"... hear an idea, know exactly where it is on the instrument, and just play it.

In the past couple years, I've become increasingly serious about gaining proficiency as a trumpeter and bassist; I've played both those instruments off and on for a very long time, but never practiced them enough to gain the same sort of fluidity and comfort level when improvising. It's really frustrating hearing an idea or seeing a difficult passage when sight-reading, but not being able to grab it. Bass, especially, is difficult for me; the whole "think in shapes and patterns" of the left hand is incredibly foreign. What has really helped, on both instruments, is simply constant slow practice of standard repertoire etude books - Clarke, Charlier, and Sachse studies on trumpet, Simandl on bass, and I'm also going through the same trumpet etudes on bass, trying different fingerings, playing the same passages in different spots on the neck, playing jazz heads (ballads, swingers, bebop heads... a little of everything), some of the easier unaccompanied Bach stuff for violin (the first movement of the D minor partita is a good one. Don't try the Chaconne.... it leads to hospitalization).

Building the ear-to-production pathway, again as others have said, just takes time. Patience, slow practice with standard notation and thinking note names, FREQUENT practice sessions (I've found that two one hour sessions or three forty minute sessions daily are more productive than one two hour session), and yes, at LEAST daily on any skill you're trying to develop.

Above all... enjoy the process. Frustration is merely the result of unrealistic expectations and goals that are too high. You WILL get there.... cherish the ride.
 
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#24
Bass said:
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/pacmans-sure-fire-scale-practice-method.50170/
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Oh… Thanks! I struggle since my four years of playing bass… I’ll try this one as I have a hard time figuring where are those f….ing notes on the neck??? Always fallback to my ears but hey, often landing one semi-tone off and adjusting accordingly… not knowing the name of the note where I am???

Coming from a wind/key background and my sight reading skill is quite ok…

Sorry OP if I entered without knocking at the door :)!
 
#25
freshman in college or HS?
I don’t think reading standard notation is necessarily that important depending on what you’re trying to do. But def ditch tabs.

here’s what helped me
-memorize key signatures
-learn the name of the notes on the fretboard. Especially the first 2 strings.
-think in terms of intervals/ scale degree.
-learn the modes and how they relate to key signatures, and scale degrees.
-play by ear. Learn to identify the harmony.
 
#27
You will never ever learn the fretboard better with TAB. You just have to put in hard practice literally saying every note out loud as you play them. Do the chromaticlly across the strings as well as up and down each individual string covering the entire fretboard
 
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#28
I don’t know what you've been doing for six years but if you don’t understand the fingerboard yet, you have an awful lot to catch up on.

Some exercises to start “seeing” the notes on the fingerboard:

Starting with the open E (or B if you play a 5 or 6 string) play up and down that string fret by fret and call out the notes as you play them. Better yet sing the names as you play them.

Again starting with the open E play every other E note on the fingerboard regardless of octave. Then do this with F, F#, G, etc.

Play major and minor scales only using a single string. Then only two strings. Then three strings. Work out how to do this with the minimum number of shifts (two shifts on a single string, one shift on two strings and no shifts on three strings).

Play scales with the root on the E (or B) strings and work out fingerings using four strings where all shifts are down the neck (example: A on fifth fret of E with pinky, B on second fret of A with index, E on second fret of D with index, G# on first fret of G with index). Do as few shifts as possible.

Then play all arpeggios within each scale only using one string, then two, then three, etc.

Play all arpeggios within each scale without changing position using three strings.

Going round the circle of fifths, play root and fifth of each chord, then move to the next (example: C-G - F-C - Bb-F, etc.). Repeat but play root, fifth and octave (C-G-C (oct) - F-C-F - Bb-F-Bb, etc.).
 
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#29
stevensivak said:
why is it the illegitimate child of reading?
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If we start discussing the failings of TAB, This thread will go on for a long time, just like previous such threads.

A primary failing of TAB is clear from the Initial post: you don't need to learn the names of the notes. For some this may seem an advantage, but clearly not for the OP, and they are not the first to post "I can read tab, but I can't <insert musical skill> " threads. The implication is that TAB , while useful for communicating string/fret coordinates, is typically lacking in other musical information.
 
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#30
My method seems boring and repetitive, but it worked for me so I will share it.
Print the attached.
Put metronome on 60 bpm
Say each note as you read it on the page. C-D-E-F-G…etc (with metronome - all 12 keys…. err…15 keys. Don’t pause between keys) - at first you might be a little taken aback at how hard it is just to say the notes with the metronome without making mistakes.
Only after you can say them all (without making mistakes), then try to play each note, while you say them and read them on the page. - all 15 keys)
It took me several months to master this. Sorry, there is really no shortcut. At least there wasn’t for me.
 

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#31
SteveCS said:
YMMV, but I don't get it. I mean of course I get it - it is blindingly obvious what it is trying to represent. But I don't see any value in substituting letter names and/or intervals for obscure glyphs that have absolutely nothing to do with music. Doesn't adding further layers of translation from non-musical language hinder the task? YMMV
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I don't know how to explain it exactly, but I'd be glad to tell you how it came about and how I've used it. I wanted a map of a theoretical fretboard with infinite strings and infinite frets, but not with letter note names or scale degrees - with symbols. (When I see a letter or a number I tend to mentally read it, and I didn't want that; I wanted shapes and colors only, nothing that could be audible in my head).

I wanted to be able to look at this map while improvising/composing/noodling; to imagine myself moving around on the map as my fingers move around on the fretboard. (If I get close to the edge of the part of the Pattern I've printed out I can just teleport to the same symbol elsewhere, since the Pattern repeats).

Ideally, I think it is best not to even name the symbols, just let them stand for the sounds they represent, but since you are interested, and because I think it's actually pretty cool, here's the story behind the symbols I chose:

X marks the spot. Seems natural as "home" or tonic or moveable "do" or whatever.
+ seemed natural for the tritone.
I used the old shape-note heads for Re, Mi, Sol, La and Si, full and green colored
I used the same shapes for their inversions, but open and red colored (and turned in the case of the half-moons of intervals 2 and b7 to show how they pull towards the tonic, and flipped in the case of intervals 7 and b2 to show how they pull up and down respectively)

I've had some epiphanies staring at this sheet full of symbols while playing my bass. When I read the OP's request for suggestions, I thought, who knows, maybe someone else will like this, too, I should share it with the community.
 
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#35
MVE said:
My method seems boring and repetitive, but it worked for me so I will share it.
Print the attached.
Put metronome on 60 bpm
Say each note as you read it on the page. C-D-E-F-G…etc (with metronome - all 12 keys…. err…15 keys. Don’t pause between keys) - at first you might be a little taken aback at how hard it is just to say the notes with the metronome without making mistakes.
Only after you can say them all (without making mistakes), then try to play each note, while you say them and read them on the page. - all 15 keys)
It took me several months to master this. Sorry, there is really no shortcut. At least there wasn’t for me.
Click to expand...

You're better off with a set of progressive studies that offer guidance on position. Starting off with 7 flats is ridiculous.
 
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#37
jre5 said:
Hey all,
I'm a freshman music student studying the electric bass. I play some other instruments and understand basic music theory, and I've been getting into jazz recently on the bass, but I just can't seem to wrap my head around the fretboard. I've been playing for about 6 years now, and up until my first semester here, I've been using tabs to learn. I know the shapes of root-3-5-7s of different chords on the fretboard, but knowing where all my notes are at all times, and being able to visualize my notes outside of the one position has been rough. I've started to pick up upright a little bit, and it's been helping, just getting rid of tabs altogether, but I'm not sure how well it's been translating to electric bass. I take lessons on electric, and they're super helpful, but compared to everything else my lesson instructor and I have worked on up to this point, I'm not seeing nearly as much progress as I would like in terms of being able to see notes if this makes sense. The biggest thing is that I have trouble seeing my frets as notes rather than just numbers or dots. If anyone has experienced anything similar, what are the best exercises, things, or practices I can do to overcome this hump?
Any tips or advice would be strongly appreciated.
Thanks!
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You are not doing enough arpeggio practice, naming the roots as you go. If your arpeggios are all over the board and enough times while naming the roots at least, then you might remember notes. Go around the cycle of 4ths so it at least sounds like something.
I am not talking hundreds of arpeggios, I mean THOUSANDS of times. There is no shortcut.
 
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#38
Lobster11 said:
It might make sense to use the metronome as a way of testing oneself much later in the process, but not to start out learning the fretboard.
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He’s trying to learn the fretboard AND read standard notation.
Being able to read standard notation without good rhythm will limit you to only being able to fumble through it until you memorize it, then you’re not really reading it at all.
 
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#39
Some may disagree:
1. Dont try too hard. How I learned was octaves, 4th string open, E, memorized every E on the neck. You will see its a pattern. That pattern can be 'moved' for each note. When I was comfortable, I went to F. I did it by scales not chromatically. Don't mean to hurt your feelings, I know you are learning, but after you learn this, don't be glued to your music.
 
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