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I would spend some time really going back to basics.
With my newer students, as they're learning standard notation (Mel Bay style), I have them say the notes, out loud and I tell them to do so, when they're practicing on their own.
In your case, I would modify that and tell you to throw out the tab and the standard notation and spend some time, learning by ear and saying the notes, as you figure them out.
I think not only will that help with ear training (we can all get better at that), but it will also help you learn all the "new" notes you might run into (especially since you mentioned Jazz).
With my newer students, as they're learning standard notation (Mel Bay style), I have them say the notes, out loud and I tell them to do so, when they're practicing on their own.
In your case, I would modify that and tell you to throw out the tab and the standard notation and spend some time, learning by ear and saying the notes, as you figure them out.
I think not only will that help with ear training (we can all get better at that), but it will also help you learn all the "new" notes you might run into (especially since you mentioned Jazz).
Thank you for this explanation. I was completely and utterly confused when I saw that… it seems wayyy more convoluted than just memorizing the notes on the fretboard, or learning the boxes, or the CAGED thing that guitarists are always talking about.
The basic idea here is that maybe sometimes letters and numbers get in the way; they are full of meaning and bring their own sounds (if you pronounce them in your head). See my response to @SteveCS in post #31 of this thread. So like @mambo4 and @Papageno said: This Master Pattern is just the 12 notes represented as symbols, laid out like a bass fretboard (notes ascending chromatically in the horizontal and in 4ths vertically).
I expect that as people who love playing bass, we all share a fondness for the Pattern. I know when I listen to music I often visualize where the notes or chord roots would be located relative to each other in the Pattern. I'm sure you have all drawn the Pattern on paper using note letter names or scale degrees, amazed by it. I mean, come on, it is AMAZING that you can pick any random note, say 100 Hz, as a tonic, and it just happens that the pitches you get by multiplying that frequency by 4/3, then again by 4/3, then again by 4/3, 12 times, are very very closely octave-related to the pitches you get by dividing the octave into 12 equal tones - and not only that, there is sense and symmetry in the way they fall around the tonic and musical relevance in how they sit relative to each other in the Pattern (diagonal, skip every other one, etc)! The Pattern exists and works only because the human brain likes patterns (hell, isn't that the whole thing of music?) - likes them so much it is willing to ignore the commas and grasp at anything that suggests order in chaos. I think the Pattern is wonderful, and the idea here is a purely visual representation of the Pattern.
The symbols I chose are not entirely useless abstract symbols. I particularly wanted a map of where notes are relative to their inversions. By that I mean: the note 3 semitones (or 3 fourths) above tonic (b3 or minor third) is related to the note 3 semitones (or 3 fifths) below tonic (6 or major sixth) by inversion. (there may be a better word than inversion, I don't remember, but you get what I mean). So the 12 note symbols are paired up to make 6 shapes (e.g. minor third and major sixth both rectangles). The choice of the actual shapes was easy, I just used the shape-note symbols for Re, Mi, Sol, La and Si. I guess one could call their inversions Er, Im, Os, Al and Is, but the point is purely visual symbols. The old familiar Fa symbol is not here because the fourth needs to be visually paired by shape with the fifth (also it's too close to the Si symbol).
The color code distinguishes notes closer to tonic by fourths (counterclockwise on the circle of fifths) from those closer to tonic by fifths (clockwise on the circle of fifths). I personally find this musically relevant information that we all eventually internalize but which is not at all clear in scale degree numbers or letters. Scale degrees 5, 2, 6, 3 and 7 bring a sort of positive energy to the music we associate with the major scale. The further you go, the brighter. These notes are full and green in this Pattern. Their inverses - scale degrees 4, b7, b3, b6, b2 bring a moody intensity to the music we associate with minor sounds. The further you go, the more intense. These notes are open and red in this Pattern.
This is not at all to replace sight-reading, chord spelling, the Nashville number sytem or anything else. It is just a big Pattern of symbols you can look at and imagine yourself inside of while you make sounds in succession or in combination on your bass. Sorry this got long
Shoot, I should've put the image back on so you don't have to go back to page 1 of the thread to find it. It would be so fun if a couple of you, or the OP, or somebody, did decide to spend twenty minutes exploring this with their bass and we could talk about it (maybe directly or a side-group or something so as not to annoy everyone else)
Years ago I was given this advice that served me very well. Tedious as it may be, it was suggested I do this exercise one string at a time.
Start at the first fret and say the name of that note out loud. Don't proceed until you speak it. Second fret ditto. Keep going up the entire neck then start again on the next string first fret and so on until you have spoken the name of every note on the fretboard. Do the length of the fretboard on each string at the beginning of your practice routine each time before you go on to anything else. There are only 4 strings most likely, maybe 5, so it shouldn't take long.
Tedious yes but very effective for me at least. I know where the notes are now and my ability to play a part in various positions and move around the neck with ease is the result.
I’ve never even seen bass tab for five or six string basses.
Tab can be useful when finger numbers are added to standard notation. It’s common in many double bass method books. including the Ray Brown book.
What worked for me was playing three octave scales in every key going from the lowest note on the bass in that key up to the highest and, here's the kicker, saying the name of each note out loud - not just in your head - while playing that note. Do this to a metronome starting as slowly as you have to, but constantly increase speed to where it is just about uncomfortable.
This made me a complete and utter wreck for the first few days, but once you break through the wall it is super liberating.
No matter what method you use, I wish you much success. This is one of those skills like riding a bicycle. Once you have this skill, you never really lose it.
This made me a complete and utter wreck for the first few days, but once you break through the wall it is super liberating.
No matter what method you use, I wish you much success. This is one of those skills like riding a bicycle. Once you have this skill, you never really lose it.
Yes learn notes on the neck. But don’t let that be your crutch or all you know. Lead gives you music to a song, then he says we are playing it 3 frets up. What will you do? Try to quickly transpose it in 15 seconds? Or know how a G chord (for example) and play it 3 frets up.
If you start with an E string in the left lower corner it s actually F maj pentatonic in red and B major pentatonic in green. So it depends on what string you use as your starting point.
That diagram is nice but I don’t see why you need more than 6 lines/strings in it.
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Tab is not illegitimate. You can learn the fretboard with tab too.
Standard notation makes it easier to learn the fretboard and understand theory though but it’s not the only way.
Tab really has some advantages over standard notation:
1) it’s much quicker to find the notes for most people. Especially in the beginning. It’s the easiest notation method.
2) you know exactly on which string it is meant to be played. So it’s great for ‘100% accurate fingerings’, so you know how the original player intended it (if the tab is correct or made by the player itself!)
3) it works great for open or alternate tunings. Standard notation is very hard to read in this case.
4) tab is great for memorization and making quick notes.
Disadvantages of tab:
1) it’s harder to notate the rhythm in it
2) the danger is that you only learn the numbers without really knowing what you are doing.
I always advise my students to learn both. I have nothing against tab (as some here rigidly do here) but it is good and very handy to also learn standard notation.
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I am totally on board with this opinion, nice summary!
When I started learning guitar 30 years ago, my teacher made me study on Berkley books in standard notation, but at the same time also gave me note-by-note solos handouts handwritten in tabs and completely without rhythm indications. The idea of those was that I would listen to the record and understand the timing of the notes by ear (with a key hint: sing them before playing them).
So do I understand right that this is your personal notation for remembering relative notes locations on the neck?
At first sight it looks like the rows of the picture correspond to strings and the columns to frets (so identical symbols appear two frets to the right and two rows up - hence an octave). But if that's the case, why so many rows? Why not just four?
Also I can't figure out your choice for the symbols. "X" looks like the root and "+" is the tritone. Then green symbols are mostly major intervals and red are mostly minor intervals but the perfect 4th is red... and finally what is rationale of the symbols shapes? They are symmetrical so maybe amount of semitones from the root, in either direction?
Think of it as a game you can play with your bass. The objective is fun. The fun comes from little moments of understanding. About the fretboard, music in general, maybe the universe, but probably just the fretboard.
Here's a step by step for an example of how to use it for a first time. It's a section of a map of a fretboard with infinte strings and infinte frets. The Pattern is 12 x 12. The map allowing us to visualize it should be 13 x 13 to see that it repeats (first column is same as last column, top row same as bottom row). If we limited our map to the little slice that is our actual fretboard we would not see the big Pattern so clearly. Seeing the whole Pattern is nice; helps to see the little patterns within.
1) Get comfortable with your bass and temporarily forget everything you know about scales and modes and letter names, etc. Get the map in front of you.
2) From this point on, try to keep your eyes on the map at all times. Dont look at your fingers or fretboard!
3) Without looking, try to play the note on the 7th fret of your second-thickest string. (would say the E on your A string for a standard-tuned 4-string but I already asked you to forget note names
) It doesn't matter if you are actually on that note, just be in the range of frets 5-9. The reason you don't look to check is because it doesn't matter.4) Keep plucking that note with rhythm and style (thump, thump, thump) while staring intently at the X that is right in the middle of the map. You are establishing a short-term connection in your brain between that X symbol and the note that is now your tonic, or "home" note. X = home.
5) Now play "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star." Keep your eyes on the map at all times! Move the focus of your eyes just before you move your fretting fingers. Hit the first Twinkle at home, see the green oval whose coordinates would be (up two frets, up one string), play that note for the second Twinkle. Look at the green rectangle one row/string up, 3 frets back towards the nut. You know that's where the note is that you want. Go get it! Play "Little" there, then go back to the same green oval as before for "Star."
6) Now back Home to X. Look around for alternative ways to get from here (the middle X) to a green oval to a green rectangle and back. Try those patterns and come back home. Don't lose the beat with your plucking, and keep your eyes on the map.
7) Now try to invert the melody. Replace the green oval with a red oval and the green rectangle with a red rectangle.
8) Now just explore. Look at a symbol and play the note that's located there. Never let your eyes leave the map.
Just remember X is tonic. If you modulate, X is still tonic, it just sounds different because you changed the actual frequency associated with the X symbol. If you noodle around far from where you started, remember the pattern repeats. There's a 5 x 5 pattern in there centered on the tonic that repeats with a little shift. So if you wind up in the upper right corner of the map, for example, you can just find the same symbol or little pattern down in the lower left and suddenly imagine yourself there, where you have more upwards room.
X is tonic
+ is tritone
green full notes are closer to tonic going clockwise on the circle of 5ths (straight down from X on the map). Tend to be uplifiting, sunny, airy.
red open notes are closer to tonic going counter-clocwise on the circle of 5ths (straight up from X on the map). Tend to be dramatic.
The shapes get pointy as they get further away from the tonic X on the vertical. The pointier shapes are more extreme in their green or red characters.
The green shapes correspond to the shape-note shapes: half-moon for Re or scale degree 2, diamond for Mi or scale degree 3, oval for Sol or scale degree 5, rectangle for La or scale degree 6, triangle for Si or scale degree 7.
The red shapes are the inverses, or reflections around the tonic or octave: half-moon for scale degree b7, diamond for scale degree b6, oval for scale degree 4, rectangle for scale degree b3, triangle for scale degree b2.
Hopefully this clears everything up. Have fun! Please, anyone, feel free to direct message me if you want to interact about this thing.
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An example of what my college notebooks are full of:
I do think these sorts of exercises Are best created explored individually.
Making diagrams for scales or arpeggios etc across the neck ( or an imaginary 12 string neck)
forces you to understand the tone/semitone relationships
and it exposes the symmetrical patterns of a bass tuned in perfect 4ths
I think every one should create such charts at least once
But I also worked these out, went "hey cool it's all one big pattern",
and then put them away and went back to practicing music on my instrument
At the end of the day it's still a bass- specific fingering chart
I don't think it helps learn the names of the notes nor their context within a key, Nor does represent sound very well.
memorizing which color /shape encodes which interval or pattern has limited utility.
So I 'll stand by my earlier assertion that music notation is a superior abstract symbol system for music
I do think these sorts of exercises Are best created explored individually.
Making diagrams for scales or arpeggios etc across the neck ( or an imaginary 12 string neck)
forces you to understand the tone/semitone relationships
and it exposes the symmetrical patterns of a bass tuned in perfect 4ths
I think every one should create such charts at least once
But I also worked these out, went "hey cool it's all one big pattern",
and then put them away and went back to practicing music on my instrument
At the end of the day it's still a bass- specific fingering chart
I don't think it helps learn the names of the notes nor their context within a key, Nor does represent sound very well.
memorizing which color /shape encodes which interval or pattern has limited utility.
So I 'll stand by my earlier assertion that music notation is a superior abstract symbol system for music
Fair enough. Fascinating that you imagined the strings on the horizontal and the frets on the vertical. I've always visualized it turned the other way.
So we're all making our diagrams in our notebooks, just an exercise, and we never look at them again because they aren't particularly useful.
But what if we're on the right track, we just haven't found the right symbols to put in the diagram?
It might be possible to make a 12 x 12 diagram that is very useful. We just have to figure out what information to encode in the symbols and how. Then we do have a map. We can look it while playing and let it lead us to the right notes.
I tried symbols that encode for direction and distance from tonic on the circle of fifths, and I like what I got. Don't even have to memorize what the symbols stand for because after a few minutes looking while playing the brain makes the associations and the notes seem to sound like they look. They just represent the sound.
It is strange. Maybe it's just me.
Exactly right...
No, they can be very useful if you do it yourself. Making your own diagrams and notes can be a highly effective way of conceptualising and internalising anything. It is the process of thinking and drawing/writing that has the greatest impact, not looking at it afterwards. The same it true of learning songs - writing out your own scores/charts/lead-sheets cuts learning time and improves both long-term retention and accuracy of recall by orders of magnitude. Spending time trying to decipher other people's existing work misses the objective.
Just to be clear, none of this is a criticism of your diagram - you thought it through and put the work into creating it because it chimed with your learning preferences and how you conceive the pattern in your mind. It works for you so props for that. The fact that it doesn't work for everyone is a non-issue (and in many ways to be expected). Folks need to work it out for themselves, conceptualise in ways that work for them and do their own homework for it really stick.
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Ditto. As I have always asserted: a valuable exercise.
Red, Green, Blue =1 , 3, 5
Yellow= other major scale tones
X is the tonic, + the tritone. They are blue just to make them neutral and not red or green. When you see full green think chlorophyll; when you see open red think fire.
The reason it works is because the full green notes are closer to the tonic X in the clockwise direction on the circle of fifths: scale degrees 5, 2, 6, 3, 7; the open red notes are closer to the tonic X in the counterclockwise direction on the circle of fifths 4, b7, b3, b2. The reason that works has to do with multiplying the tonic frequency by 4/3 or 3/4, and doubling or halving to get everybody in a single octave. The reason that works, I'm not exactly sure but the best explanation I've found so far suggests it's related to the first three harmonics.
But no knowledge of any of that is necessary to use this map; somehow the full green notes sound like leaves smell and the open red notes sound like glowing embers feel. So if you are playing a beat on your tonic note X and you want to hit a note that feels green, keep you eyes on the map, find a nearby green note and go there with your fingers on your fretboard. Maybe you want a bassline that really favors the green...and now you think a little red would spice it up. You don't want it too spicy. That's where the shapes come in. The intensity of greeness or redness is encoded in the pointiness of the shape (honestly, it just worked out that way, the shapes are from the shape-notes and their inversions, I wonder if whoever invented the shape-notes realized it...).
Pairs of shapes are inversions around the tonic. That can be fun to mess around with and was what I was especially interested in when I chose the shapes.
Start by associating the X right in the middle of the map with the sound of your tonic note. Keep your eyes on the map. Play a tune you know by heart while looking at the symbols. Let your eyes see the big picture.
Please be open to the possibility that it just works for me because I made it.... and also open to the possibility that I made a lucky find and you and other people can find joy and wonder in it, too.
Either way, @SteveCS @mambo4 everybody, this has been great. I appreciate you interacting with me.
