Double Bass Underwood vs Full Circle vs Realist

[Endlesssolo]

I’m looking for a better pick up sound (aren’t we all) and I have an old underwood, a realist, and a lifeline. Mostly I’ve been using the lifeline, but it really gets lost in the mix with a drummer. It’s like there’s a brick wall for upper mid frequencies. The realist is a little better in terms of hearing attack, but also a little boomier. For both I really need to use a HPF, which helps quite a bit but ends up weakening the clarity of the E string.

When I use the underwood, it’s almost the compete opposite. I need to use a preamp even with the 10megohm input on my amp, and turn down the upper mids way down to get a reasonably pleasant sound. But it is easier to hear with a drummer.

I’m hoping the full circle would fall somewhere in the middle; a round enough sound to approximate playing acoustically at lower volumes (like duo gigs without a drummer) but be mid-rangy enough to be heard clearly with a larger group.

Any thoughts? My bass is on the bright side, and seems to work best acoustically with Evahs.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The Full Circle (or Yamahiko or Bassbalsereit/ANS or Stat-B) should work for you.

I have/had the first two, a Shadow bridge wing pickup and the Shadow NFX bridge foot pickup (sounds best with one sensor connected).

The Underwood or any other bridge wing pickup is very sensitive (soundwise) to pressure. IME it works best with as little pressure as possible that still keeps the pickup in place. The difference might be a single fine file stroke at the bridge wing. Also the pressure should apply at best on the whole surface on both sides, if not possible then in the middle of the pickup. Never at the edges only.

You might want to experiment with the pressure and position of the Underwood first before ordering a new pickup.

 

[GordoBass]

Have you tried the Underwood with just the end transducer on the E side?

 

[Endlesssolo]

Have you tried the Underwood with just the end transducer on the E side?

Yes I have, to me it wasn't a big difference. It's still a very mid-rangy sound.

 

[GordoBass]

The difference is night and day with mine. Good luck on your quest!

 

[Endlesssolo]

The Full Circle (or Yamahiko or Bassbalsereit/ANS or Stat-B) should work for you.

I have/had the first two, a Shadow bridge wing pickup and the Shadow NFX bridge foot pickup (sounds best with one sensor connected).

The Underwood or any other bridge wing pickup is very sensitive (soundwise) to pressure. IME it works best with as little pressure as possible that still keeps the pickup in place. The difference might be a single fine file stroke at the bridge wing. Also the pressure should apply at best on the whole surface on both sides, if not possible then in the middle of the pickup. Never at the edges only.

You might want to experiment with the pressure and position of the Underwood first before ordering a new pickup.

Thanks. I have messed around with the fit of the Underwood a bit and I think I have it pretty well adjusted. It holds in place but is not tight at all. I've tried reversing the elements, only using one, and the basic character of the pickup is the same.

On a related note, when I first put the realist (copperhead) in place, the bridge foot sort-of rocked on those two small circular elements, i.e it didn't fit to the bass top as well. I had my bass over to an excellent builder/repair/restoration guy, and he carved out just a small indent in the bridge foot to make it fit better and even out the pressure over the whole bridge foot. This lowered the output of the pickup significantly; it's still plenty, and the sound is a little less boomy.

 

[Endlesssolo]

The difference is night and day with mine. Good luck on your quest!

A couple of people have told me that too, I remember being excited to try it, and then disappointed when it didn't really change things.

That's how life seems to go for me playing double bass with a pickup. Hope, disappointment, acceptance, repeat.

I have a feeling I'm going to end up buying a full circle. I would love to try one first, and you don't see them for sale used that often.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I’m hoping the full circle would fall somewhere in the middle; a round enough sound to approximate playing acoustically at lower volumes (like duo gigs without a drummer) but be mid-rangy enough to be heard clearly with a larger group.

This has been my experience with the Full Circle for the last 15-20 years. I don’t plan to change any time soon.

 

[lurk]

A very disturbing aspect of the Realist is that it marred the top of my bass under the bridge foot with a couple of dents. It doesn't show since it's under the foot, but it's disappointing that such a well respectred luthier would make and continue to sell a product that does that.

 

[Derek Kay]

I have been using the Underwood for years and it vastly improves with a preamp. Mine is homemade from off the internet, and converts the Underwood's capacitive output to a resistive output like that of a guitar. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

I am heavily influenced by Ron Carter & Ray Brown, and that is the sound I aim for using a 12" combo. A clear pulse, without too much mwah or boom.

I spent years getting my bass to play well acousticaly, and IMO that is a very important part of getting a good amplified sound, regardless of the PU.

 

[Endlesssolo]

A very disturbing aspect of the Realist is that it marred the top of my bass under the bridge foot with a couple of dents. It doesn't show since it's under the foot, but it's disappointing that such a well respectred luthier would make and continue to sell a product that does that.

This is why Robbie McIntosh, the luthier I go to, carved out very small and slight indents in the bottom of the bridge foot to match those small (2-3mm diameter) piezo elements.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

If you’re playing with a drummer the Bass Max might treat you well. You’ll sound like you’re playing a P-Bass but at least you’ll be heard because of the low-mid punch.

 

[Francois Blais]

Mine is homemade from off the internet, and converts the Underwood's capacitive output to a resistive output like that of a guitar. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

As far as I know, most electric guitars have magnetic pickups, therefore the output is rather inductive, if there's no on-board preamp.

 

[Derek Kay]

As far as I know, most electric guitars have magnetic pickups, therefore the output is rather inductive, if there's no on-board preamp.

Merci
The simple 9v preamp converted the Underwood from pietzo output to guitar output and that helped enormously. It became plug n play with any amp.

It did the same for the saddle pietzos of my ABG.

 

[james condino]

I own six different pickups; none of the works perfect and about half of the time they sound mediocre at my modest to medium power level gigs, no matter how much $$$ in amplification, preamps, and electronic voodoo I spend.

When I rent the same basses and pickups out to world class performers who gig in giant arenas with power measured in tens of thousands of watts, they sound fantastic....

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Thanks. I have messed around with the fit of the Underwood a bit and I think I have it pretty well adjusted. It holds in place but is not tight at all. I've tried reversing the elements, only using one, and the basic character of the pickup is the same.
...

Seems like you already tried it all.
A high impedance buffer preamp can help, specially in conjunction with a high pass filter as mentioned before.

If you go the Full Circle Route, make sure the part of the bridge that contacts the adjuster bridge is plan and parallel to the disk. Maybe let it check by a luthier. Better sound and better life of the piezo ceramic inside.

Also try rotating the disk by small amounts to find the best sound (not the largest volume). The full spectrum is in a quarter turn and mirrored in the middle of it. When I first got the Full Circle I hated the sound until I found that out.

I once changed from the Full Circle to the Yamahiko (bass side only). I was afraid the Full Circle piezos might break by long time pressure or impact during transport. The Yamahiko is less bass heavy than the Full Circle but both would sound a bit better with a high impedance preamp (5 to 10 MegOhms).

 

[Endlesssolo]

I have been using the Underwood for years and it vastly improves with a preamp. Mine is homemade from off the internet, and converts the Underwood's capacitive output to a resistive output like that of a guitar. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

I use a Fishman model B preamp with the Underwood. Otherwise it’s unusable. I even find it helpful with the 10megohm input on the AI amp.

Interestingly, the lifeline works a little better without the preamp, or at least it’s different. I think the impedance mismatch actually cuts a bit of the boominess. I’m guess there is some circuitry in the lifeline designed to compensate for impedance mismatching so that players can simply plug it in to a normal amp and be happy.

 

[basss]

This has been my experience with the Full Circle for the last 15-20 years. I don’t plan to change any time soon.

Same here

 

[damonsmith]

The Underwood gives a nice, clean signal. It give you the sound of a certain era, and is one of the best for volume. Best to go to an Underwood before a magnetic, for example.
It mutes the bridge pretty drastically, and therefore removes a fair amount of acoustic sound from the mix as well changing the overtone content and the overall "vibrational behavior" of the bass. The Realist and Full Circle are more integrated with how the instrument functions acoustically.

Even at pretty high volumes, the body of the bass is adding a lot more to the sound than you think, especially in the lows when using a small speaker.

 

[PBandJazzBass]

I recently starting using a Full Circle again after using a Realist Lifeline for about 5 years. The last time I used a FC was probably 2016 or 2017. I’ve also previously used the Realist Copperhead & Upton Rev Solo.

The main differences I’m noticing between the Lifeline and Full-Circle is way more midrange and high frequency content which is resulting in clearer articulation, but also more nasal character. I had to use the midrange “contour” switch on my amp for the first time last night to get the sound I wanted.

I’ve also had more issues with feedback and less consistency between amps and sound systems. In some instances it sounds great. Others, not so much.