Upgrade Amp or Cab First?

[Derry Murbles]

Oh! And you can likely do quite well for yourself spending less than that budget. Didn't mean to imply you should put that much into it all in one shot.

Oh yeah I should have been more specific. All together I'd be open to spending that much as a whole. I have the cash on hand if I needed to go for it, but would rather leave that account alone and save up.

The head/cab would likely end up being a few months apart since intermixed with the amp shopping will be bass shopping too lol.

And if I could score what I want for less, I'm all in of course. I'm just leaving budget open if I decide to splurge on something new instead of used (I'm kind of anal with my electronics).

 

[Derry Murbles]

Normally, I would get the amp first, then find a cab that is a good match. If you buy a cab first, you limit what amps you can use with it.

A conservative rule of thumb is that the cab capacity should be at least twice the RMS rating of the amp. So your 450W RMS output amp should be coupled with a cab whose capacity is at least 900W RMS. With two identical cabs daisy changed together, the power handling adds. So you would look for cabs that can handle at least 450W each.

How long between the purchases matters a bit. Upgrading a cab now could improve your sound. Let's say that it is rated 800W RMS. Then you are limiting yourself to an amp rated at no more than 400W.

Choose carefully. Ideally, you should know what amp and cab that you want, then get one and then the other as you can afford them.

That seems like the best bet: Deciding on them together so that the rig works as harmoniously as it was designed to, then just obtain separately as my financial preferences permit.

Luckily I'll still have my old rig (and practice amp) so if my first purchase isn't compatible or wouldn't work great with my current set up, it can sit until I get its counterpart, and I'm still able to jam meanwhile.

Definitely extra variables to consider and get in line before making a decision. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Bigskybassguy]

I probably would have done the same thing- Go home and try and build something even though someone infinitely more knowledgable than me told me i'd be better off going a different route. But those are the best lessons!

Y'know, WhtMtn, there's a huge irony here... I started buying cabs (tried a Carvin , then an SWR, then an Eden, then a FenderBassman 150w kickback combo 12" P.O.S !... tried a Fender gRumble finally a Peavey 4x10, & 2x10 sitting on a Headliner15 with the whole biamped scam...

Then 3 years ago, I built my fEARful 15/6 w15 Sub;



... And I've never looked back at that store bought stuff! And man, I'm proud of how my DIY stack sounds! Guess I've traveled the whole circle!

 

[Bigskybassguy]

Not sure where you are in New Jersey, but if you ever wanted to try out a fEARful cab, they're all around you.
See here: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
and us fEARful mooks are pretty proud to let others try out our cabs.

 

[Derry Murbles]

Y'know, WhtMtn, there's a huge irony here... I started buying cabs (tried a Carvin , then an SWR, then an Eden, then a FenderBassman 150w kickback combo 12" P.O.S !... tried a Fender gRumble finally a Peavey 4x10, & 2x10 sitting on a Headliner15 with the whole biamped scam...

Then 3 years ago, I built my fEARful 15/6 w15 Sub;

View attachment 795021

... And I've never looked back at that store bought stuff! And man, I'm proud of how my DIY stack sounds! Guess I've traveled the whole circle!

I love that you mention that, because before I started seriously considering a new set up I was bouncing around the idea of either swapping out the speakers or just building a cab myself.

I've built/put together a bass before (didn't actually create the neck/body or anything, just bought all parts and electronics and wired it up/put it together) and I'm pretty handy with tools, but given my limited experience in too many areas of amp building and my lack of appropriate workspace, I was driven to pass on the idea for now. I'd love to get into it eventually, and when the time is right it'll happen.

What inspired you to finally build a cab when you did?

 

[singlemalt]

I was wondering when the fEarfuls would show up.

OP, you gotta ask yourself, "Do I like DIY projects?" Would it turn your crank to build an awesome cab in you own garage or basement?

Or you could pick up a used fEarful out of the TB classifieds.

I've built four, at this point, and sold two. The two I sold covered costs. I only sold them because I wanted smaller fEarfuls. Great fun to build, super sounding cabs, and they hold their value. (Less, of course, your DIY time and effort)

So, I'd agree, cab first. Then try out your amp candidates with the new cab.

For my $.02 worth, the 12/6 cubes with alpha 6 maids and the CBG crossover are the biggest bang for the buck. A pair, pictured above. I've got about $600 plus my time in to them.

I'd usually only take one out, I built the second for the odd loud date, and because they are fun to build, and I got the spring building itch.

 

[MVE]

Wt mnt guy,
You can get "flat pack" kits for the fEARfuls, where everything is precut and you just assemble them. There are also great deals in the classifieds.

 

[Eminor3rd]

I think considering how well the head and the cab match sonically is an important and underrated factor. Since the head is probably the more expensive and more personal decision, I'd start there and then start testing/shopping for cabs that complement it.

 

[Bigskybassguy]

What inspired you to finally build a cab when you did?

1. I was tired of people actually saying to me "your bass sounds weak." Damn.
2. I found a nearby source for 5'x5' Baltic Birch and started sawing.
3. I bought the costly items a little at a time so my bride wouldn't notice.
4. Finished the 15/6, and while I never really need the 15Sub, I was dying to keep building. It was a ball.

 

[spaz21387]

Id say get a nice cab first. Before i had the funds to get a nice swr 6x10. I was modding basses alot. Swapping pickups and pre's. Now that i have a nice rig i just tend to play the bass stock. A nice bass and amp helps but the cab really matters.

 

[Bodeanly]

I might get flamed for this, but have you considered a good combo and a VT pedal? Like you said, you're playing jazz and blues, not metal.

EDIT: Never mind. I just saw that your budget is 3 grand. Get whatever you want. Get two of 'em if you want.

 

[Bigskybassguy]

but given my limited experience in too many areas of amp building

But see, you're building a cab, not an amp. Amps are by geniuses -- cabinets are by the feeble-minded like me.

I barely got the Cabinet done before I finished the Cabernet.

 

[Derry Murbles]

Not sure where you are in New Jersey, but if you ever wanted to try out a fEARful cab, they're all around you.
See here: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
and us fEARful mooks are pretty proud to let others try out our cabs.

I'm in central NJ but I don't mind driving. Looks like the closest one is about an hour and change away. And that's a cool little map thing; I may have to look into that further.

View attachment 795081 I was wondering when the fEarfuls would show up.

OP, you gotta ask yourself, "Do I like DIY projects?" Would it turn your crank to build an awesome cab in you own garage or basement?

Or you could pick up a used fEarful out of the TB classifieds.

I've built four, at this point, and sold two. The two I sold covered costs. I only sold them because I wanted smaller fEarfuls. Great fun to build, super sounding cabs, and they hold their value. (Less, of course, your DIY time and effort)

So, I'd agree, cab first. Then try out your amp candidates with the new cab.

For my $.02 worth, the 12/6 cubes with alpha 6 maids and the CBG crossover are the biggest bang for the buck. A pair, pictured above. I've got about $600 plus my time in to them.

I'd usually only take one out, I built the second for the odd loud date, and because they are fun to build, and I got the spring building itch.

I do enjoy DIY projects. I'm going to look into that set up, especially since as MVE stated below they make the kits which sound like a nice starting point for building a cab.

Wt mnt guy,
You can get "flat pack" kits for the fEARfuls, where everything is precut and you just assemble them. There are also great deals in the classifieds.

I did not know that! I just checked out speakerhardware.com and wow, pretty cool options over there.

I think considering how well the head and the cab match sonically is an important and underrated factor. Since the head is probably the more expensive and more personal decision, I'd start there and then start testing/shopping for cabs that complement it.

I like that stance on it. I think my goal at this point would be to loosely decide on both an amp and cab (maybe a couple options for each) before setting out to acquire them. However if I do that and get the amp first, I could tinker around with other cab combinations and maybe find an option that I hadn't previously considered!

1. I was tired of people actually saying to me "your bass sounds weak." Damn.
2. I found a nearby source for 5'x5' Baltic Birch and started sawing.
3. I bought the costly items a little at a time so my bride wouldn't notice.
4. Finished the 15/6, and while I never really need the 15Sub, I was dying to keep building. It was a ball.

Fair enough haha.

Id say get a nice cab first. Before i had the funds to get a nice swr 6x10. I was modding basses alot. Swapping pickups and pre's. Now that i have a nice rig i just tend to play the bass stock. A nice bass and amp helps but the cab really matters.

I believe it. I could see a nicer rig just bringing out the best of even a low end bass and making it at least tolerable, if not even a little pleasant lol. (PS I'm not implying your basses are or were low end when you were modding, just agreeing with your point that a nicer amp set up could alleviate/smooth out some upstream signal flaws).

I might get flamed for this, but have you considered a good combo and a VT pedal? Like you said, you're playing jazz and blues, not metal.

EDIT: Never mind. I just saw that your budget is 3 grand. Get whatever you want. Get two of 'em if you want.

If I find something I REALLY like that has a Texa$ price tag, I'd stretch the budget no further than 3 (will just take me a bit longer to get it). But ideally, I'll be spending closer to half of that. You never know how good of a deal you can find! Plus I enjoy acquiring equipment so I may be able to finagle some pedals or a bass into a deal to minimize the cash-money output.

But see, you're building a cab, not an amp. Amps are by geniuses -- cabinets are by the feeble-minded like me.

I barely got the Cabinet done before I finished the Cabernet.

Swap the cabernet with a nice peaty Islay and I'm in! I'd probably end up with the speakers facing inwards somehow.

 

[Wasnex]

My question again- do I upgrade the head first or cab? I don't know enough about amplification in general to know which is a better route:

Two things to keep in mind. 1) Speakers typically make more of a difference than the amp. Some speakers are relatively transparent and some are very colored. You need to decide which type of speaker you prefer. I tend to like speakers with a relatively wide and flat response. Other will argue that a more colored speaker is better for music. Neither is right as it comes down to personal preference. 2) Some amp/cab pairings work together and others don't. You might find a cab that sounds awesome with one head but just average with another. Worse yet, the cab may actually sound really bad with some amps.

My vote would be to not buy either until you identify the amp/cab pairing you will ultimately buy. After you have narrowed it down, make the decision on what you will buy first based upon your most immediate needs and available cash. If you have enough to buy only one or the other, bring your current rig in so you can try your amp with the speaker you want, and also try your speaker with the amp you want. Buy the one that gives you the largest incremental improvement.

 

[kat888]

How much power do you need?

Ampeg SVT + 810/610/410 (believe these are all available 2nd hand) for killing small furry animals ... or ... V4B + 212 (or 2 x 112) as recommended for old ladies with tinnitus.

If you can't afford to get amp and cab together, get the cab first.


PS I've heard a scurrilous rumour you can actually run an SVT with the vol less than flat out.

 

[Derry Murbles]

Two things to keep in mind. 1) Speakers typically make more of a difference than the amp. Some speakers are relatively transparent and some are very colored. You need to decide which type of speaker you prefer. I tend to like speakers with a relatively wide and flat response. Other will argue that a more colored speaker is better for music. Neither is right as it comes down to personal preference. 2) Some amp/cab pairings work together and others don't. You might find a cab that sounds awesome with one head but just average with another. Worse yet, the cab may actually sound really bad with some amps.

My vote would be to not buy either until you identify the amp/cab pairing you will ultimately buy. After you have narrowed it down, make the decision on what you will buy first based upon your most immediate needs and available cash. If you have enough to buy only one or the other, bring your current rig in so you can try your amp with the speaker you want, and also try your speaker with the amp you want. Buy the one that gives you the largest incremental improvement.

Yeah that seems to be the most logical route (waiting to buy either until I'm decided on a set up). I figure this way by the time I've decided, I should be at a point where I'm more educated and more able to to potentially alter my course after buying one part of the equation, should my wants or needs shift.

 

[spaz21387]

They were low end. Back then i had a squier japan p bass and some mim fenders. They were always lacking something thats why i modded them... I have upgraded since then. Now its a ric 4003 and a musicman 3 band ray. And a stingray classic.

 

[gumtown]

I would get both amp and cab at the same time, then you can match the gear to what you want, there and then.

 

[ashtray]

In your situation, cab first. That said - with $2-3k in the budget - QUICK: there's a Glockenklang Heartrock head WITH matching 4x10 cab in the classified for only $1,250 shipped! That rig will slay!! I mean, its killer. Tone for days and weeks and years. No - its not mine. And I'm not sure if it sold already or not.

Aside from that - you should really upgrade both head and cab for $1k or so now. Something like the forum's flavor of last week the Aguilar TH500 amp and a heavy 4x10 cab. (I say heavy bc people are dumping their heavy cabs in favor of light ones, so good bargains on quality used heavy cabs.). Or go with the forum's current flavor of the week - the Mesa, uh... 800 something? I dunno - I don't follow the trends closely.

And then there's the forum favorite fEarfull (or fEaRlEss?? I dunno...) cabs. Do research - everyone ravs about them and they seem pretty expensive?

You're actually in a VERY good position: you have a budget, you have a goal, the market is full of top quality used gear, and pretty much anything you decide to buy will be an upgrade! Almost can't go wrong!

Btw - tubes are cool, no doubt. They can be super heavy and a bit more fragile. You might get by with a tube in the preamp section, but its not the same as having power tubes. That said while nearly all my guitar amps are tube, none of my bass amps are - aside from a single preamp tube here and there. Don't feel you need a tube head to go to high quality stuff and great tone. Then again, if that's what you want, go tor it.

 

[39-Bassist]

Personally I am with the buy a GREAT amp first. I had gone both routes and found that when I got the head wanted I could send the signal to the PA and have a great sound out front where it mattered the most. (IMHO)...and an AMP that has a great DI...try matching the head with different cabs to find that live tone you want...then work your way into buying a used cab in good shape...
The bottom line is IF you do your homework on what YOU like and want then you can't go wrong...good luck on your search....and just have fun playing and listening.