• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Upgrade head or get another cab for more volume?

#21
I generally recomend adding more speakers because it makes a lot more difference that adding power but the Backline 600 is only 300 watts at 4 ohms . You are getting about 175 watts with your current cabinet with that head like the poster above said . That is probably where you are running out of gas when playing louder . A 212 cabinet is usually plenty for most gigs by my experiance so I'd try a more powerful head . You like the GK sound so a 700RBii or a used 1001RBii would get you over the hump .
 
#26
You would normally want to add a second cab to get louder, however, in your case your cab severely outclasses your head. It is not even close. Get a better head. The GK Backline 600 is 300 watts at 4 ohms, and probably about 175 watts at 8ohms. I used to have one and for the money I think they are great, but even wide open they would not make that cab even breathe heavy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nevada Pete
#27
MarkA said:
The Neo 212 is listed, on the GK site, as handling 800 Watts RMS (not peak). Even if you take the usual (and usually prudent) step of assuming that translates to about 400 real-world Watts of power handling, you should be able to go with a more powerful head -- 175 Watts (if that's the case) into your cab is not much.

I had a Dr. Bass 2x12, some years back -- mine was 4 Ohms, not 8, but I imagine not horribly different from your GK cab in terms of max volume and real-world power handling (the cab was listed at 1000 Watts RMS power handling -- thermal -- which probably translated to about 500 Watts mechanical -- I know it wouldn't take 1000 Watts -- and efficiency was around 100 dB/W/meter, give or take a dB).

Anyway, playing that cab with my 300 Watt Mesa Walkabout, the amp was running out of steam on louder gigs. Played with a 500 Watt Markbass F500, I had enough to play comfortably where the WA was starting to compress and overdrive. It was a significant difference -- not as much as adding a second cab, but more than the "barely audible difference" folks like to cite on TB. Differences in voicing, etc., accounted for some of that, too, but not all of it (similar results playing that cab with a number of different heads in the 500-700 Watt range).

"More cab" is usually a better and safer solution for more volume than "more amp," but, in your case, I think "more amp" is worth a try. Can you take your cab to some stores and at least try it with a more powerful head? Is there a more powerful head that you could borrow for a gig? A 700 RB II or 1001 RB II would get more out of your cab than your current head (though, as always, with more power you'll want to utilize more care -- listen for signs of strain from your cab).

If you upgrade your amp and end up deciding that you still need more/better cabinetry, you'll still have a better amp to power the new cab(s) with (though, again, if you can try/borrow before buying, I'd do that).

In the ubiquitous "recommend my favorite cab" category (if you end up going that route), a 4 Ohm MAS 112 (particularly the latest, most compact design, if you're looking at navigating stairs) will smoke a GK 212 and excels at being heard clearly -- onstage and out in the house -- in a busy mix.

Finally, as Stumbo likes to say, an HPF can make a material difference in how loud you can safely go with a cab (more with some amps/cabs than others) and can be handy for boomy stages.
Click to expand...
@MarkA is on to something here, IMHO. My main gigging amp for several years was a Mesa Venture. 600W @ 4ohm, & 2X12, handled anything I threw at it.

Normally, I agree completely with @Ewo, & in fact think that's an awesome bumper sticker! But because the 8ohm rating of your amp is as low as it is, I would try out a few different heads with your cab.

A good illustration; I played a gig with a funk/metal band when I was young. The rig was a borrowed 200W Fender head & the omnipotent Ampeg 8X10. It didn't cut it...I had to stand directly in front of the cab to hear myself! Double the power would have been a different story...

I think you're in a weird no-man's-land where there isn't a clear cut answer. I intended to just pop in here, post "More Cabs!", & be on my merry way, but after reading your entire post, now I'm not sure which direction is better. Take your entire rig into a few shops, & let your ears (& flapping pantlegs) guide you. Good luck!
 
  • Like
Reactions: PJ Bassthumper and pcake
#30
Then again I did absolutely fine with a 150
Watt amp into a 810. Carried loud drummer and guitar.

The point more speakers the better
Adding more cone area is definitely best bang for the buck.

Increase efficiency.

2x12 more efficient than 2x10 and close to 1x15

Either way no advantage.

Perfect thing is another exact matching 2x12.
More consistent and efficient. and heck athestic wise looks amazing.
All the same drivers. Magically pushing air.
 
Last edited:
#32
Bull.

Allow me to explain.

I'm running a BL600 through 2 Acoustic Neo 210's vert stacked. It's powerful, and by powerful, I mean it gets unnecessarily, stupidly loud. As in, obliterate my drummer and make my guitarist (100W JCM900, 4x12) cry loud. This is in a very heavy band. We practiced today, and with the master maxed I had my channel volume right about noon. I had absolutely no problem being heard.

Keep that head, add a cab and get it running at 4ohms. If you need more than that, you're playing significantly louder as a band than you would ever need to.

As a matter of fact, the settings I described before have me finally convinced to stop being a stubborn ass and obtain ear protection. Yes, that is what that head is capable of.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stumbo
#33
The general rule is if you want more volume, move more air. Get a second 8 ohm cab. The general rule is to get two of the same cabs so you get more predictable volume throughout the venue, so another 2x12.

The speaker size - again, in general - doesn't matter, but a 4x10 cab made by Company A in the 123 Series will move a but more air than a 2x12 cab made by the same company in the same series. So if you do find that a pair of 2x12 cabs still aren't doing the trick, then try a pair of 4x10's. If that doesn't get the job done, you can upgrade the head but honestly, you're probably either already playing way too loud or trying to create frequencies that the cabinets weren't designed to create. (ie low subwoofer type bass)

Trick to getting more volume out of any gear is to use a HPF to cut out the very low frequencies, and then boost the low mids. That's a very efficient way of creating maximum volume.

PS - if your cab is firing at your legs and not your ears, that won't help matters. Try putting your cab on something to raise it up and you'll hear it a lot better. That is a secondary benefit of running two cabs - the top cab gets closer to your ear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wisebass, bobomatic, Bill Whitehurst and 1 other person
#34
The Backline series are fine for the designed purpose, but they can run out of steam. With all due respect, and in general, advertised wattage can be a false indicator of power. The 212 Neo is bi-ampable? Cool! I vote for the 700rb-ii or more head first - and utilize its bi-amp capability. Add another cab if needed.
 
#35
SmokinJoe992 said:
You would normally want to add a second cab to get louder, however, in your case your cab severely outclasses your head. It is not even close. Get a better head. The GK Backline 600 is 300 watts at 4 ohms, and probably about 175 watts at 8ohms. I used to have one and for the money I think they are great, but even wide open they would not make that cab even breathe heavy.
Click to expand...

In my experience, this is correct.

OP, all the theory regarding more speaker equals more volume is great. And perfectly true. But it won't solve your problem because you are seriously under powered. When you are a bass player, there is no substitute for power. Power is your first priority, and you can't cut corners with it.

If you like GK, the 1001RBII gets you into that area where you'll have some head room. And, it has that GK "RB" sound you won't get anywhere else. That's definitely where I would go with GK. That and your 2 X 12 Neo should get you where you want to be for most of your smaller gigs with no PA support. Your 212 Neo is 8 ohms, so yes, you can add another cab so the pare will not only play significantly louder but will also give you more girth, or depth to you bass. It will be one more thing to schlep at the gig, but those cabs aren't that heavy and probably worth it in many situations. It also gets one of your cabs up a little higher so you can hear your self on stage better. Good luck.
 
#36
Another option, if its available (but i fear it probably isn't) would be a 16 ohm 1*12 version of your 2*12. That would give what, 5.3 ohms so something appreciably over 50% more power into 50% more cone area and a lot more portability than the 2*12. Stack all 3 vertically and the top driver will be nicely in ear range too.
 
#37
Your amp is underpowered for what you need. Get an 800 watt head. That will take you from a max 175 watts to 500 watts into 8 ohms. Don't worry, this cab can take it. Then decide if you still need more volume. If so, you have a good upgrade path to a second 212.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nevada Pete
#39
Some good replies but another I haven't seen on here for you to at least think about.

If you really like GK, and light is what you need, try to look around for the 210MB combo. It's 8ohm so you could use your head and 2x12 or just the 210 for practice, or have a 4ohm 210/212 setup for more volume. Keep the head for a backup.

If you can find one, you should definitely try it out with your 212 first. Mixing drivers may not be ideal, but same manufacturer at the very least. Shoot someone from GK May be able to answer that here

See if you like the sound and additional volume before buying though
 
#40
Another vote for a second 212.
It will increase your amp's output power, but more importantly,
it will double the speaker area.
From what you say, many times you won't even need to bring the second one.
As an added bonus, once you have a pair of G-K 212s,
you are set for most any bigger amp you might score later.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back