Double Bass Upton vs. New Standard

[Andrew Grandahl]

My pleasure. I'll post some clips of my Upton's arco tone when I get a chance. Until then, here's my band;

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The first two tracks are me on my Upton, only a few months after it was made. I was 16 when these were recorded, to defend the intonation issues.

 

[Don Higdon]

If I were to rephrase my question, I'd have to ask "is paying twice the money worth it when comparing the tone of each instrument?"

What are you asking?
Are you asking if price should be a factor when judging the tone of a bass? Of course it is.
Are you asking whether or not the higher cost of a New Standard is justified? Why?
I can't hear for you; neither can anyone else who's telling you which to buy. It's your decision, not their's.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

That said, the Cleveland is definitely easier to play, and I've never heard it with Evahs, superior strings to Helicores in my opinion.

This is your first double bass, and you want something for the road... get the Upton.

Why was the Cleveland easier to play? If that is the case in general (not just setup), why wouldn't the Cleveland be a better choice, especially for a first time owner?

I've played my student's Euro Upton Hybrid and I've played a fully carved Cleveland. They are both large upper bout basses and for me that makes them harder to play. They were both good sounding in their own way. This is really comparing apples to oranges as we all have personal preferences in what we like in an instrument. As was stated previously, it's not all about the money and the OP needs to go out and play them both.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I'll probably hear a lot of complaining for doing this, but I'm going to post some links to sound/video files of both basses (although all I have at the moment are soundfiles of the LaScala and not the Cleveland...sorry).

In the interest of being fair, here are the two websites for the companies in question:

http://www.newstandardbass.com/

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Yes, I know I'm not supposed to post direct website links, but they're pertinent to the discussion. IMO, Shen basses should also be in the equation, so I'll throw that out there as well.

Here's a youtube link of a vid/soundclip of the Upton bass.

Here's a clip from the Nachbar hit mentioned earlier. Again, it's not a Cleveland, but it's at the same basic price point as the Cleveland and made by the same folks. I hope that someone will post soundclips from their Clevelands and Uptons later on. As I mentioned, I hope to be able to do a review of the Uptons and New Standards with comparative soundclips (same player, same recording setup, different basses) at some point in the future.

My apologies if I have overstepped my bounds here. I've tried to present supporting materials for both companies under discussion, while making it clear that I have experience with one make of basses but not the other. FWIW, both basses sound pretty good to me based on these clips, especially considering they're laminates.

 

[arseniotall]

Aresnio,

I'd love to hear more, since you've played 'em both. Thanks.

I'll pm you. Ive learned my lesson on posting about "brands" of basses. I just figured based on his situation the choice seems pretty obvious to me. He said 1500 price tag for a bass on the road. He is not gonna find a New standard in one piece close to that price..lol. He said "good sounding but inexpensive" . I dont think a 4k plywood qualifies as inexpensive. Especially with my bank account

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Thank you.
I think the Upton sounds pretty frickin' good, especially at the price. 'Course, the playing of the New Standard was a 'bit' better.

 

[jweiss]

Here's a clip from the Nachbar hit mentioned earlier.

Both basses sound great. I really enjoyed this trio recording.

 

[Bass]

Here's a youtube link of a vid/soundclip of the Upton bass.

Here's a clip from the Nachbar hit mentioned earlier.

Well, that settles it!

 

[Andrew Grandahl]

Why was the Cleveland easier to play? If that is the case in general (not just setup), why wouldn't the Cleveland be a better choice, especially for a first time owner?

The Cleveland reacted just a bit better than mine, and my Upton has a few wolfs I have to work around. I've only started to encounter problems with my Upton recently, but they're issues you'll run into only once you've reached an extremely high level of playing. For example, the Trio from Beethoven 5 is easier to play on the Cleveland because it reacts better, but anything easier than that, (and that's pretty much everything) isn't a problem. Stratospheric Bottesini is also easier on the Cleveland, but again, you'd expect that from a much more expensive instrument. I've also played the Upton Professor and Concert basses and I have to say, when comparing those with The Cleveland, they're in the same price range and I'd take the Upton. The sound has deepened and grown so much richer since I got mine three years ago. I get so many positive comments and questions about my great sounding bass is, and most people are absolutely shocked when I tell them how much it cost me. Also, the guys at Upton are great and very customer friendly.

 

[funkythumb]

Loved the audio on MySpace Andrew.

You guys and gals ROCK Love the input. ....Just to clarify all, as I posted in the beginning, this is NOT my first upright bass and it will not be my only upright.
Though I'm mostly an electric player, I've been doubling for years( jazz). Ask me what you will about electrics but I'm obviously still researching and learning about DBs.
I currently own a carved (student) Wilfer. Good bass but I don't want to take my one and only $6,800 upright on the road and subject it to extreme humidity, bumpy van rides and other potentially hazardous situations.
For this purpose and from what I've read, I think the Upton may be plenty. From the audios I've heard of both the Upton and NS basses, I may want to sell my Wilfer and ALSO get a Cleveland.
Just thinking about it!!! I'm planning on visiting someone in town who owns a Cleveland. I'll be able to compare it side by side with my Wilfer and judge if the Cleveland is better suited to my playing needs.
Some people on jazz gigs have asked me if I could play my Wilfer without an amp. I couldn't. I'm a big guy with strong hands but I couldn't get the Wilfer to project. The Cleveland may enable me to get a little closer to my acoustic needs.
Both basses sound wonderful and amazing for plywoods

 

[WinterBass]

Chris,

Love your Lascala.

Can you tell us about the setup on your Lascala. Strings, pickup, and do you know the microphone used in the video.

I am sure a lot of the sound is in Goldsby's fingers too.

 

[larry]

I played through the piece with my bow, then took the music to my practice room and tried it with my 2006 Upton hybrid

Comparing the sound of two instruments should really be done in the same room. A sound will react with the space it is in.

I can play my bass in different rooms in my house and its character will really change.

 

[Deleted member 5551]

Some people on jazz gigs have asked me if I could play my Wilfer without an amp. I couldn't. I'm a big guy with strong hands but I couldn't get the Wilfer to project. The Cleveland may enable me to get a little closer to my acoustic needs.
Both basses sound wonderful and amazing for plywoods

I'm a Cleveland shill here. That being said, I too, have NO experience with Upton. I'm solely conveying my pleasure with my Cleveland Ply.

If you want a loud bass-the Cleveland kills. I subbed in a Bluegrass musical and did it with out an amp. The normal bassist played an Engelhardt through a GK. On my first night, they asked me turn turn down the amp...the next time, I played, we tried it without the amp. I still got asked to turn down. That was a bit of an ego kick. The theater was only 75-100 seats though. My action at that point was no higher than 8mm on the G side. Normally, it's 4.5ish and the bass is still loud. I also play Spiro Weichs.

The bass is very road worthy-I take mine on the CTA [Subways & buses] regularly. It has taken it all in stride.

I think either bass [based off of what I have read about Uptons and what I experience with my Cleveland] can fit your bill. I've received compliments on tone across the Chicago area. It was a trip at one of my first Slams at the Mill-I had other bass players coming up to me and complimenting my sound and playing. Thank you free jazz!

I believe this bass can could very well last me the rest of my life. I do *want* another bass, but not until I am earning substantial cash from playing bass. Until then? My Cleveland ply will more than suffice.

all the best.

 

[Eric Swanson]

Um, just a another vote for trying both basses, and the Shen, first hand, then deciding, over an extended period of time...

 

[Ryk]

From someone way below you on the experience scale with the DB ... but fairly well aquainted with other string instruments ... and VERY demanding about the sound of what i play. Let me say this ....

I have not played a Cleveland.

I started DB last July at Ashokan and at the recommendation of my teacher i went with Upton (their Deluxe Standard with the Evahs). I love my bass. My teacher loves my bass. So much so that he has ordered two more to offer as rentals for students. As an instrument bought to travel (eventually) to gigs ... jams ... or what we call here in the Northeast Kingdom ... tunks .... it is just perfect.

Can i hear a difference between my PlyBaby and my teachers fully carved Big Red? Is a frog's fanny watertight? But the Upton is more than adequate and i'ld repeat the process all over again in a heartbeat.

There are many fine bassists here. There are many times more opinions. I read and appreciate Uncletoad's viewpoints, opinions and insights. (Thank you Uncletoad.) So when the time comes to acquire a bass with a finer sound .... i will give some serious consideration ... to the hybrid Cleveland and will travel to A/B that instrument with my Upton.

Which seems to be what you're already considering.

Best,

Ryk

 

[mchildree]

Funkythumb, if you want to get an idea of how Clevelands might vary, or how it might sound after a few hundred gigs, you are welcome to come down to Columbus and try mine.

You can also get an idea of the roadworthiness...mine's been smashed up and repaired by Arnold...and it came back playing and sounding better than before.

 

[drurb]

The Cleveland reacted just a bit better than mine... you'd expect that from a much more expensive instrument... The sound has deepened and grown so much richer since I got mine three years ago.

It's probably worth mentioning that the Upton design has also changed in ways that make them easier to play than their European imports of three years ago. Apples, oranges, bananas, whatever. I anxiously await Chris F.'s direct comparison.

I've also played the Upton Professor and Concert basses and I have to say, when comparing those with The Cleveland, they're in the same price range and I'd take the Upton.

Ah, now we've moved to carved-top basses. Hey, when did you play a Concert (please PM)?

 

[Andrew Grandahl]

Loved the audio on MySpace Andrew.

You guys and gals ROCK Love the input. ....Just to clarify all, as I posted in the beginning, this is NOT my first upright bass and it will not be my only upright.
Though I'm mostly an electric player, I've been doubling for years( jazz). Ask me what you will about electrics but I'm obviously still researching and learning about DBs.
I currently own a carved (student) Wilfer. Good bass but I don't want to take my one and only $6,800 upright on the road and subject it to extreme humidity, bumpy van rides and other potentially hazardous situations.
For this purpose and from what I've read, I think the Upton may be plenty. From the audios I've heard of both the Upton and NS basses, I may want to sell my Wilfer and ALSO get a Cleveland.
Just thinking about it!!! I'm planning on visiting someone in town who owns a Cleveland. I'll be able to compare it side by side with my Wilfer and judge if the Cleveland is better suited to my playing needs.
Some people on jazz gigs have asked me if I could play my Wilfer without an amp. I couldn't. I'm a big guy with strong hands but I couldn't get the Wilfer to project. The Cleveland may enable me to get a little closer to my acoustic needs.
Both basses sound wonderful and amazing for plywoods

Thanks for the compliments, I'm glad you enjoyed the music. Spread the word, Richard is a terrible self-promoter. I'm sorry for not seeing this isn't your first Double Bass, I clearly didn't read your first post thoroughly enough.

If you're worried about whether or not the bass can take abuse, let me just say firstly that my Upton has been all around and put through plenty of Hell. It's not without a dent or scratch or ten, but it still sounds great and is totally structurally sound. I also know that Upton can upgrade your bass to make it more road-worthy.

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By the way, I'm not anti-American Standard by any means, I think they're fantastic instruments. My Upton has just done a lot for me in the past few years.

Comparing the sound of two instruments should really be done in the same room. A sound will react with the space it is in.

I can play my bass in different rooms in my house and its character will really change.

The two practice rooms were identical in size and shape.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Can you tell us about the setup on your Lascala. Strings, pickup, and do you know the microphone used in the video.

For that recording, John put spiro mittels on the bass. I normally keep it at 7mm (G) to 10mm (E), but told John he could do whatever he wanted to the setup while he had it. The pickup is a Full Circle, and he borrowed an old Polytone minibrute to use on the gig. I have no idea what the mic in front of the bass was.

I am sure a lot of the sound is in Goldsby's fingers too.

Yes, John's a great player. The bass still sounds good when he isn't playing it, though. If you want to hear it being played by someone not quite as nimble as he is, go to the search feature and type in "lascala", and there are some soundclips in a thread called something like (LaScala hybrid and laminate with soundclips" or some such. I don't want to post it here, as I felt I've already taken up too much time and space with info about a bass that isn't a Cleveland.

I'll try to step out now. Y'all be good!

 

[BPeder]

Does Arnold, (NS) offer a similar trade in/up program like Gary, (Upton) does?