Any chance you guys saw a dark-stained hybrid La Scala nearing completion when you y'all went to the shop? Mine should be done any day now and I'm chomping at the bit! 
Thanks
Michael
Thanks
Michael
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Double Bass Upton vs. New Standard
- Thread starter funkythumb
- Start date
Any chance you guys saw a dark-stained hybrid La Scala nearing completion when you y'all went to the shop? Mine should be done any day now and I'm chomping at the bit!
Thanks
Michael
I am not sure which bass was yours. There was a lot of good stuff going on there. Your best bet is probably to ask them directly...
uptonbass
Proprietor, Upton Bass String Instrument Co.
It's always disappointing when potential customers publicly air their grievances against dealers rather than cordially handling any problems personally. *In Mr. Hoffman's case, it's even more disappointing for us because his accounting of what occurred is far from accurate. *We stand by our reputation of superb customer service and our philosophy of doing the best we can to place the right instruments into our customers' hands.
[email protected]
Mr. Upton, that was not a grievance. A grievance is something else. There is nothing in my post but unvarnished fact. I did take a step back from my experience and tried to excuse what happened, like, philosophically, "It's too bad it happened". I make no comment on the quality of anything you do.
But now that you mention your disappointment, may I mention mine? I would like to say I was a sincere customer, maybe not your usual customer given my location, but I wanted to buy an Upton Standard Laminate bass from you. Accurate so far? I was surprized to receive, after our friendly conversation in which we agreed on price, an estimate for a bass other than the flatback we had discussed for 40 minutes. Also, the price was less than the price you had stated, so I thought there was an error there. But I felt disappointment when I realized days later I was not going to receive a corrected offer. Second, it is a fact that I received no answer at all from you to my email agreeing to all your conditions, including the one condition I had asked a question about. Third, I in fact did cancel my overnight at the Another Second Penny Inn in Stonington at a loss of the $50 deposit. Legally, I suppose, you have a right to not sell a bass to me if you don't want to. I was disappointed in the way this happened but I got over it.
Nuff said. I will not be posting again on this issue, nor can I make any statement at all about your customer service as I have no experience there. What happened was my loss and perhaps yours as well. I chalk it up to experience.
Good luck to you.
On a side note, I learned that there are actually several other options available to folks than one finds on the New Standard website.
Schnitzer and DeSola also produces gambe (plural of gamba, I think) in 3/4 and 7/8 sizes, and a Ruggieri model. Then there are maple and poplar options for the backs and sides. Flatback and roundback possibilities, as well. All of these are happening in and around the budgetary range of the New Standard instruments, but are not produced under the New Standard banner.
If I understand it correctly, they are sensibly keeping the New Standard line discrete. These other basses are made the same way, with components from the same source, and broaden the possibilities.
When I was at their shop, I was captivated by a lovely 3/4 gamba-shaped carved bass they had strung up. Yesterday, I played both 3/4 and 7/8 Schnitzer/De Sola gambe at Michael Hartery's shop, in Boston. They were both pretty provocative, in differing ways.
The 7/8 (with poplar back and sides) had tremendous warmth, depth, and power; this would be a really nice orchestral bass. The 3/4 gamba (with maple back and sides) is almost magically loud, full-sounding, and penetrating, both arco and pizz. Its quite hard to believe that its only a 3/4 bass.
Here are some photos of the 3/4 gamba:
Link Removed
I, personally, decided to go with a La Scala. I simply add this because it was interesting and unexpected for me to learn that they have this whole additional range of instruments available.
Finally, I would only say, to the OT, that I don't think of it in terms of "Upton vs. New Standard." They are different companies, doing different things, in different ways. I would only offer the classic suggestions; I would encourage anyone considering a bass purchase to do some "hands on" research and comparison of offerings from all around. Vintage, new, ply, hybrid, carved, etc. The more basses we play, the more people we talk with, the more likely it is that we can reach a fitting, considered decision.
Schnitzer and DeSola also produces gambe (plural of gamba, I think) in 3/4 and 7/8 sizes, and a Ruggieri model. Then there are maple and poplar options for the backs and sides. Flatback and roundback possibilities, as well. All of these are happening in and around the budgetary range of the New Standard instruments, but are not produced under the New Standard banner.
If I understand it correctly, they are sensibly keeping the New Standard line discrete. These other basses are made the same way, with components from the same source, and broaden the possibilities.
When I was at their shop, I was captivated by a lovely 3/4 gamba-shaped carved bass they had strung up. Yesterday, I played both 3/4 and 7/8 Schnitzer/De Sola gambe at Michael Hartery's shop, in Boston. They were both pretty provocative, in differing ways.
The 7/8 (with poplar back and sides) had tremendous warmth, depth, and power; this would be a really nice orchestral bass. The 3/4 gamba (with maple back and sides) is almost magically loud, full-sounding, and penetrating, both arco and pizz. Its quite hard to believe that its only a 3/4 bass.
Here are some photos of the 3/4 gamba:
Link Removed
I, personally, decided to go with a La Scala. I simply add this because it was interesting and unexpected for me to learn that they have this whole additional range of instruments available.
Finally, I would only say, to the OT, that I don't think of it in terms of "Upton vs. New Standard." They are different companies, doing different things, in different ways. I would only offer the classic suggestions; I would encourage anyone considering a bass purchase to do some "hands on" research and comparison of offerings from all around. Vintage, new, ply, hybrid, carved, etc. The more basses we play, the more people we talk with, the more likely it is that we can reach a fitting, considered decision.
Please keep your promise with regard to this and any other such vendor issues you might have. It's better to give 'em a call than to drag us all through this type of spat.
Bravo!
well in most "grievance" situations I would disagree, I mean we all want to have a warning when someone is screwing their customers over -but this situation sounds like it was a logistical error.
Yes, we want to know but we rarely do! In all the years I've been hanging around TB, there have been, maybe, one or two instances where it seemed that a "dealer" was screwing customers. Never have I read a case where it was even close to clear that a reputable dealer was engaging in anything like that. There are always two sides to the story. Customers or potential customers spill their guts here while they count on reputable dealers to have the class not to get into it with them in public. So, you most often hear only one side.
IMO, TB should not be used as a forum to gain an advantage with a dealer (e.g., via attempts to besmirch reputations) before good-faith attempts are made to work out differences in private with the dealer. In addition, airing complaints here first is not likely to motivate a reputable dealer to be very "giving."
I am not speaking specifically about Hoffman's case. I am speaking in general about TB members and reputable dealers.
Thanks Don, i'll keep that in mind.
Btw, my apologies to all here on TB, including Upton Bass. this is not a forum for venting one's frustrations publicly. thanks also to all who sent me a PM, TB really is a great community and it is a privilege to be a part of it.
thanks also to Upton Bass for doing what they do:
thanks to UB, i did actually end up with the "right" instrument, that is, exactly what i wanted (despite myself thinking i wanted something else).
i am very happy in the end with how everything turned out and will be posting on my new La Scala later in the year.
Things have a way of working out, as far as I can tell. Good of you to make the effort to clear up any misunderstanding that may have happened.
Thanks anyways. I'm trying to be patient, but I was hoping to hear that there was this beautiful La Scala hybrid ready to go. I'll give them a call in the next couple of days.
Michael
From the outset, I have resented the "vs."
They're not selling specifically against each other.
Each has a vision of what kind of bass they want to produce, and each is doing their best at it.
The "vs." connotes that this thread is a contest with a clear winner and a clear loser, and that if more posters like Bass X than Bass Y, everybody who bought Bass Y is wrong.
Bull$hit.
THANK YOU DON!
The fact that bassists have real options when looking for a quality bass makes us the winners. When I started out over fifty years ago, my choices were Kays and beatup old Mittenwalds. I wish that I had basses like Uptons and New Standards available to me. There was no internet to help you locate basses for sale.
George
The fact that bassists have real options when looking for a quality bass makes us the winners. When I started out over fifty years ago, my choices were Kays and beatup old Mittenwalds. I wish that I had basses like Uptons and New Standards available to me. There was no internet to help you locate basses for sale.
George
Absolutely! As a member of the "old guy" club, I also very much appreciate the relative riches we now enjoy in terms of double bass choices. I hope the young whipper-snappers appreciate it as well. 
I also agree that "vs." does not capture what this is all about.
I also agree that "vs." does not capture what this is all about.
Having just received a "Deluxe Hybrid" Gary Karr model from Upton, and having had one of the first Cleveland laminates to ship to the West coast several years ago, I wanted to add some thoughts.
First of all, I agree with many of the posters that the "Upton v. NS" title is unfortunate. In my dealings with Arnold and Will, and Gary and Eric and their staff, I found both establishments to be excellent artists, fair businessmen and very helpful to a client 3000 miles away.
Along with my amateur orchestra playing (and the sawing away I do in my studio), I use the bass in a one man-show (see attachment). Both Arnold and Gary (forgive the short-hand for their companies) went out of their way to meet the requirements of the bass in the play -- an antique/old finish, deep low end etc;.
I used the Cleveland in 2004 and '05, and it was a great bass, but at the time I was also developing stenonsis of the spine, and the large size of that bass (and also my Gagnon Maggini) became problematic. To make a very long story short, I switched to smaller basses, and transitioned to playing sitting down.
This coming May, I'll be doing 4 performances of the play in LA as part of the events around the LA Opera's Ring cycle, and I asked Gary about making me a Karr-model bass for the show.
The main issue was to get as massive a sound as possible out of a small, slope-shouldered bass which, for production staging reasons, I would have to play standing up.
You can see the bass they created here: ().
For me, the important thing is how comfortable the bass is to play - as well as the sound it gets, which is pretty remarkable from such a small instrument.
Is it "better" (as the "v." implies) than the Cleveland? Only, perhaps, in the sense that it is a hybrid with an excellent carved top, and some interesting design solutions re the bottom end. But would I still have my Cleveland if I hadn't had the back issues? Definitely! It was a stunningly good bass.
So, that's about all I have to offer: they are both fantastic instruments, made by companies/craftsmen who care deeply about their work and the instruments they make for us to play.
I'll post some production photos later in the Upton club thread, and information about the play is below (the photo is from a 2002 Denver production where they provided the bass - a Christopher, I think)
Thanks,
Louis
First of all, I agree with many of the posters that the "Upton v. NS" title is unfortunate. In my dealings with Arnold and Will, and Gary and Eric and their staff, I found both establishments to be excellent artists, fair businessmen and very helpful to a client 3000 miles away.
Along with my amateur orchestra playing (and the sawing away I do in my studio), I use the bass in a one man-show (see attachment). Both Arnold and Gary (forgive the short-hand for their companies) went out of their way to meet the requirements of the bass in the play -- an antique/old finish, deep low end etc;.
I used the Cleveland in 2004 and '05, and it was a great bass, but at the time I was also developing stenonsis of the spine, and the large size of that bass (and also my Gagnon Maggini) became problematic. To make a very long story short, I switched to smaller basses, and transitioned to playing sitting down.
This coming May, I'll be doing 4 performances of the play in LA as part of the events around the LA Opera's Ring cycle, and I asked Gary about making me a Karr-model bass for the show.
The main issue was to get as massive a sound as possible out of a small, slope-shouldered bass which, for production staging reasons, I would have to play standing up.
You can see the bass they created here: ().
For me, the important thing is how comfortable the bass is to play - as well as the sound it gets, which is pretty remarkable from such a small instrument.
Is it "better" (as the "v." implies) than the Cleveland? Only, perhaps, in the sense that it is a hybrid with an excellent carved top, and some interesting design solutions re the bottom end. But would I still have my Cleveland if I hadn't had the back issues? Definitely! It was a stunningly good bass.
So, that's about all I have to offer: they are both fantastic instruments, made by companies/craftsmen who care deeply about their work and the instruments they make for us to play.
I'll post some production photos later in the Upton club thread, and information about the play is below (the photo is from a 2002 Denver production where they provided the bass - a Christopher, I think)
Thanks,
Louis
Attachments
Don, cool down. you're being overly argumentative. you know as well as everyone else that the "vs" is not what you've written there. it's just a shorthand way of comparing one bass "against" the other, which is a perfectly legitimate and useful inquiry if one is thinking of buying one or the other. i see a new bass thread with "vs" in the OP has just been started on "Thompson vs Kay-M1", so far, no complaints of discrimination...
