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US income inequality at record high

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#82
chicago_mike said:
Theres often an excuse of, get a job, or If you don't make enough, stop spending or get another job or get a second job...

The problem, is, The basic cost of living. How low the minimum wage is, and how low it would go if we eliminated it. And if you DO get that second job..You almost better not tell your first job. Can't tell you how many interviews I've gone through where the employer more or less tells you, if we hire you, we own you. So whatever you think your schedule is, don't bet on it. And don't tell us you can't work such and such day because you have a second job, your first priority is with us!........

Thats nice...If You are my first priority....why don't you pay me like it.

Recently the excuse has been..you know..Mcdonalds is just a stepping stone to a better job...With who? Burger King? Olive Garden? And if you know how low they get paid, you know college is out of the question.
Click to expand...

Ask yourself if you're going to go to McDonalds or Wendy's or wherever if they're paying all their employees $15, knowing the effect that's going to have on the prices. Or go to Walmart. Or wherever. The answer for a lot of people is probably going to be no, or not as much, because hiking up the cost of their labor by more than double is going to have an effect that will be almost completely reflected in their prices.

No, it's not. It's out of the question if you don't want to take student loans for college or learn a trade, but it's not out of the question.

If you want to help your local economy, shop local, source local, and avoid big name brands and stores whenever you can. Stop dropping $500 on iPhones and other pointless **** that goes into the pockets of these big companies, and spend that money elsewhere in your local economy, or save it.
 
#84
I'm sorry, but these days there simply aren't very many opportunities that are denied anyone. Financial aid, grants, scholarships, and many other avenues open colleges up to almost anyone. (And don't tell me it isn't so because at 42 I am back in school full time and SURROUNDED by people who not only don't pay for school, but get a laptop EVERY SEMESTER on financial aid. One need only look at the local CL ads to see all of them for sale.) If you are going to make it in this world, I can think of nowhere better to try. But the problem is that kids are coached how to PLAY the system rather than work within its confines.

Look at all the success stories that DID go rags to riches during the depression. Look at all the success stories of African Americans making it big back when racism really was a major issue. Look at the stories of literally KIDS becoming millionaires over night here. WHO is stopping ANYONE from living up to their potential here? (Answer: nobody) Are there people from whom more effort is required to attain the same results? Of course there are. There are people who start out with a silver spoon yada yada. But that is no excuse for anyone who did not. I grew up lower middle class. My father was so poor that he had to steal food to feed his sisters growing up. But he is doing fine these days and so am I. No better place to get ahead than here. If that life hasn't played out for you, sorry. But it is not for lack of opportunity. Period.
 
#85
now look, Fingers...you're arguing LOGIC, when what most want here are excuses....excuses for failure, excuses for re-distribution...excuses for big brother government doing the RIGHT thing...

what does it matter if there are more opportunities than ever...they don't come easy...you have to take advantage of them and work hard....that's exactly what modern kids have been taught is unfair...we should have the good things in life EASY and if we don't get them....well, it must be the fault of SOMEONE....the 1% is a convenient scapegoat

now shut up your logic and get on board with the bashing! someone has more than me and it's UNFAIR....it's so unfair that we need government to DO something about it....you know that and I know that....now, please,.....





davesignatureII-1.png
 
#86
Tony Flow MMMM said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24039202
.
The income gap between the richest 1% of Americans and the other 99% widened to a record margin in 2012, according to an analysis of tax filings.

The top 1% of US earners collected 19.3% of household income, breaking a record previously set in 1927.

in the last three years, 95% of all income gains have gone to the richest 1%.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that trillions of dollars are redistributed to those in need.

And pretty much 99% of the people in the US have access to a toilet. This is something Matt Damon has been attempting to attract attention to the fact that this isn't the way it is in the rest of the world.
 
#88
two fingers said:
I'm sorry, but these days there simply aren't very many opportunities that are denied anyone. Financial aid, grants, scholarships, and many other avenues open colleges up to almost anyone. (And don't tell me it isn't so because at 42 I am back in school full time and SURROUNDED by people who not only don't pay for school, but get a laptop EVERY SEMESTER on financial aid. One need only look at the local CL ads to see all of them for sale.) If you are going to make it in this world, I can think of nowhere better to try. But the problem is that kids are coached how to PLAY the system rather than work within its confines.

Look at all the success stories that DID go rags to riches during the depression. Look at all the success stories of African Americans making it big back when racism really was a major issue. Look at the stories of literally KIDS becoming millionaires over night here. WHO is stopping ANYONE from living up to their potential here? (Answer: nobody) Are there people from whom more effort is required to attain the same results? Of course there are. There are people who start out with a silver spoon yada yada. But that is no excuse for anyone who did not. I grew up lower middle class. My father was so poor that he had to steal food to feed his sisters growing up. But he is doing fine these days and so am I. No better place to get ahead than here. If that life hasn't played out for you, sorry. But it is not for lack of opportunity. Period.
Click to expand...


May I offer a suggestion? I attended a state school that was much cheaper than a private school. I went nights and graduated debt free. This is an option for anyone who doesn't want to saddled with debt for the rest of their lives and isn't being offered preferential scholarships.

The US is still the place to be if you want to make it. People immigrate here with pocket change and soon buy houses.

I was fortunate enough to work in a lab and was able to meet people from all over the world. It's my observation they are coming there. We aren't going there.

And to answer your question about who is stopping anyone from reaching their potential? There's only one person capable of that, the self.
 
#89
I think that even though there are educational opportunitys available that could help a person claw their way out of poverty,
That alone isn't even going to come close to making you a player in todays world.

Say you do go to college , graduate and get a 100K a year job, if you worked for 40 years, paid no taxes and saved every penny, you would retire with 4 million dollars.

Not "chump change" of course, but it isn't even going to get you in the game with the "Big Boys".

The 10 richest in America:
1
Bill Gates
$66 Billion
2
Warren Buffett
$46 Billion
3
Larry Ellison
$41 Billion
4
Charles Koch
$31 Billion
4
David Koch
$31 Billion
6
Christy Walton & family
$27.9 Billion
7
Jim Walton
$26.8 Billion
8
Alice Walton
$26.3 Billion
9
S. Robson Walton
$26.1 Billion
10
Michael Bloomberg
$25 Billion

Granted, I'd love to be making 100K a year, it would definitely raise my standard of living, but in reality, working a job is not going to make you "rich" by todays standards.
 
#90
nortonrider said:
.....Granted, I'd love to be making 100K a year, it would definitely raise my standard of living, but in reality, working a job is not going to make you "rich" by todays standards.
Click to expand...

and never has...working a job provides you with a living, nothing more....

to get rich, if you start from modest circumstances, requires taking risks.....starting a business, eg, nursing it along, staying up late at night, working 20 hours a day...and then, maybe, you'll get rich...no guarantees, but that's the way to do it.

if you choose the security of an assured wage/salary, then there is a trade off...you won't get rich, but you won't have those 20 hour days etc

people here seem to want it both ways...they want to get rich, but they don't want to pay the price for doing so...and, BTW, part of the price is the fact that you might FAIL...those who start their own business do have any assurance of success...just the hope

that is something we in the west have forgotten...and we forget it at our peril...sure, we have been able to live on the national credit card for a few generations....but the day of reckoning is coming

once china and the rest of the world decide our debt is unsustainable, then it will all come crashing down....i hope i am not around to see it

davesignatureII-1.png
 
#91
sloasdaylight said:
Ask yourself if you're going to go to McDonalds or Wendy's or wherever if they're paying all their employees $15, knowing the effect that's going to have on the prices. Or go to Walmart. Or wherever. The answer for a lot of people is probably going to be no, or not as much, because hiking up the cost of their labor by more than double is going to have an effect that will be almost completely reflected in their prices.
Click to expand...

This is where I think your missing the point. The lower class and middle class are paid too little, go watch one of the videos someone posted on the first page. ALL the money is at the top,
 
#92
Tony Flow MMMM said:
This is where I think your missing the point. The lower class and middle class are paid too little, go watch one of the videos someone posted on the first page. ALL the money is at the top,
Click to expand...

by whose standards?....who is saying they aren't paid enough?

i have a suggestion...start your own business, stay up late...put in the 20 hour days...nurse it along...and then, you'll be in a position to pay your employees whatever you think is fair

davesignatureII-1.png
 
#94
two fingers said:
I'm sorry, but these days there simply aren't very many opportunities that are denied anyone. Financial aid, grants, scholarships, and many other avenues open colleges up to almost anyone. (And don't tell me it isn't so because at 42 I am back in school full time and SURROUNDED by people who not only don't pay for school, but get a laptop EVERY SEMESTER on financial aid. One need only look at the local CL ads to see all of them for sale.) If you are going to make it in this world, I can think of nowhere better to try. But the problem is that kids are coached how to PLAY the system rather than work within its confines.

Look at all the success stories that DID go rags to riches during the depression. Look at all the success stories of African Americans making it big back when racism really was a major issue. Look at the stories of literally KIDS becoming millionaires over night here. WHO is stopping ANYONE from living up to their potential here? (Answer: nobody) Are there people from whom more effort is required to attain the same results? Of course there are. There are people who start out with a silver spoon yada yada. But that is no excuse for anyone who did not. I grew up lower middle class. My father was so poor that he had to steal food to feed his sisters growing up. But he is doing fine these days and so am I. No better place to get ahead than here. If that life hasn't played out for you, sorry. But it is not for lack of opportunity. Period.
Click to expand...

While I love anecdotal evidence in socio-economic matters as much as the next guy, let me briefly interrupt your largely unsupported position to introduce some actual research:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

This chart, although not particularly reader friendly, can tell us a bit about how the system perpetuates castes, or inhibits economic mobility.

The rich, are often born rich, and the poor are also, likely, born poor. There's a bit of room for movement as you can see, but it certainly isn't as much as we'd ideally see in a level playing field.
 
#96
I'm not a cultural anthropologist or anything like that, but it seems to me that throughout history, wealth and power (one begets the other) has always always ended up in the hands of the "privileged" few.

The Pharaohs and their Slaves
The Caesars and their Citizens
The Monarchs and their Subjects
and today.....
The Corporate Tyrants and their "Customers"

Has there EVER been a society with at true equal distribution of wealth?
With human nature is it even possible?
 
#97
nortonrider said:
....Has there EVER been a society with at true equal distribution of wealth?
Click to expand...

sure there has...about 10,000 years ago, we called it "the stone age"....surprisingly, those who lived through it could not wait to have better standards of living and more "stuff", so we got away from that...:D


nortonrider said:
With human nature is it even possible?
Click to expand...

well, maybe, if you want to go back to the stone age


davesignatureII-1.png
 
#98
I'm only asking this semi-rhetorically because I really would like to break into the loop. How do I go about starting a career that will lead me to considerable wealth?

I'm going to lay out my thought process. I want to stress that, with my constructive, problem-solving attitude, these aren't excuses I've resigned myself to, they're real obstacles that need to be overcome if I want to work toward the top. Fully understanding them (which I really don't) seems like the first step to the right path.

First I need to narrow down which fields I can enter and which I can enter successfully with my inherent skill set. I'm simply not brilliant enough to ever make the cut in a top notch law, engineering, or medical program--I could work with all my might, but I just don't have the mental chops to compete with other hardworking students who also have a good 50 IQ points on me. I'm not whining about that or using it as an excuse, it's a real and pragmatic consideration. Perhaps my unique way of thinking, and other personal strengths would make me competitive in the work place, but they're not going to persuade a discerning admissions board.

Let's move beyond all that. There are still plenty of fields ready for an ambitious, hardworking guy. We'll refer to them generally from here on out. I'm going to pick one after tireless job market research and a thorough assessment of my personal strengths and weaknesses.

Once I've done so, I can't just go back to school to land a great career (my last run through school taught me that where you go matters big time), I need to go to the right school, with the right program, and the right people to meet. To do that, I need to learn which schools meet those qualifiers. Because I don't have experience in the career fields that could earn me wealth, I don't know how to decipher (even after thorough research) which programs will actually gear me for success and which ones just have excellent PR. Because I have no experience or the social connections wealth brings, I have no one with direct experience to turn to for real advice in making the right decision; I also have no one (well, it's usually three) to turn to for a reference to get into a top-notch program.

To overcome this, I have to start networking. You can agree to disagree, but I'm asserting that internet networking isn't sufficient for a variety of reasons. I need to find some inroad to in-person meetings with folks who are successful. Not just meetings, but sufficient meetings to make myself familiar and to begin learning.

I don't think there are many such professionals in the rural area I live in where the average annual income is something like 22k. So I either need to move to a new area or create a travel budget (both of which are somewhat difficult, since I'm currently without means and thus considering this whole thing). When I manage to accumulate the money necessary to move, I'll be starting over as an unskilled worker in a place where I have no social safety net and no understanding of how to manage myself in that setting. Lots of people have made that jump and I'm sure I can too, but it is both daunting and dangerous.

Let's say I've decided I need to go where some of the action is to find out where the rest of the action is: I'm moving once to meet professionals so that I can move again down the road to attend a great program. How do I decide where to go? How do I meet these folks once I move: I'm not going to be able to land a job that puts me in contact with them and I certainly won't have the disposable income to hobnob with them somewhere, I'm not in a program at a great school yet, so there's no professional mentorship program that's going to put me in touch with the folks who matter.

My point isn't that there's a pile of excuses to get in one's way. It's that many of these real obstacles work together to keep one out of the loop. Once I get the ball rolling, (I hope) I'll find ways to help keep it rolling. In the meantime, I can't even figure out how to start. There's a veil with these professionals and their world on one side and me on the other. No one's ever taught me how to pull it aside and when I try to learn from the information that's available to me, the gurus spouting their advice seem either dubious or as if their particular success was serendipitous instead of methodical. I'm not too lazy to try, I'm just too ignorant to know what it is I should be trying to do.
 
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