US income inequality at record high

[sloasdaylight]

But...but...but...but...markets aren't tautological constructs in which value, except for some essential commodities, is socially created and is defined by aggregate demand. No, not at all. They're based upon intrinsic merit and hard work. Yes siree-bob. That's what my local politician told me when he was trying to win my blue-collar vote. It just blows my mind that a mainstream politician can be a Marxist. He must be a Marxist, because he's selling me on the labor theory of value. Why else would he be telling me that hard work is the road to financial prosperity? That other guy told me that my market worth was based upon the scarcity of my skills with relation to the demand of those skills; it had nothing to do with my actual labor power or any intrinsic merit I have. That's why Victor Wooten is the richest performer in the world and that Miley Cyrus chick is working at 7-11 during the week.

...oh wait.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Yes... and folks win the lottery every day - but that doesn't make it a statistically intelligent earnings vehicle.

I literally LOLed.

 

[spade2you]

I don't know. I know that tired lines about "jealousy" and tired quotes about workin' hard aren't going to cut it. The wealth has to trickle down somehow. Having it collected at the top isn't doing anybody any good even for the ones collecting it. Consumer driven economies don't do so well when consumers can't afford to consume.

There isn't a forum on the planet where grown men aren't complaining about what someone else has. Jealousy is just part of the nature of the beast.

 

[aborgman]

Ask yourself if you're going to go to McDonalds or Wendy's or wherever if they're paying all their employees $15, knowing the effect that's going to have on the prices. Or go to Walmart. Or wherever. The answer for a lot of people is probably going to be no, or not as much, because hiking up the cost of their labor by more than double is going to have an effect that will be almost completely reflected in their prices.

Hmmm...

The Magical World Where McDonald's Pays $15 an Hour? It's Australia

...

According to the The Economist, Aussies have paid anywhere from 6 cents to 70 cents extra for their Big Macs compared to Americans over the past two years, a 1 percent to 17 percent premium.

Yeah, I think people would still eat at McDonalds.

Even in the WORST case scenarios I've seen:

1) Double labor costs
2) Labor costs account for 1/3 of franchise costs
3) ALL increased cost passed on to consumer

You're looking at an increase in prices of about $1.40 on a Big Mac. It'd go from about the current $4.20 all the way up to ~$5.60.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

It was a long, drawn-out joke about how people, particularly politicians, will sell the working class on financial prosperity being tied to hard work and that the economy is a meritocracy, whereas the reality is that markets have nothing do with any type of intrinsic merit or hard work but are instead based upon scarcity, demand, and supply. Aside from essential commodities, what is considered value is socially constructed and often has nothing to do with any intrinsic merit; hence, while Victor Wooten is arguably a more talented performer than Miley Cyrus, I'd feel confident saying (don't beat me up for conjecture, skeeter!) that Cyrus receives higher revenue from her performance than the master of the Fodera.

Yeah, my GF tells me that some of my jokes suck. I think it's time to reevaluate my sense of humor.

 

[aborgman]

No better place to get ahead than here.

Data just doesn't agree.

Several studies have been made comparing social mobility between developed countries. One such study (“Do Poor Children Become Poor Adults?") found that of nine developed countries, the United States and United Kingdom had the lowest intergenerational vertical social mobility with about half of the advantages of having a parent with a high income passed on to the next generation.

...and

France, Germany, Sweden, Canada, Finland, Norway, Denmark... all easier to get ahead (relative to your parents) than the USA.

 

[Unrepresented]

It was a long, drawn-out joke about how people, particularly politicians, will sell the working class on financial prosperity being tied to hard work and that the economy is a meritocracy, whereas the reality is that markets have nothing do with any type of intrinsic merit or hard work but are instead based upon scarcity, demand, and supply. Aside from essential commodities, what is considered value is socially constructed and often has nothing to do with any intrinsic merit; hence, while Victor Wooten is arguably a more talented performer than Miley Cyrus, I'd feel confident saying (don't beat me up for conjecture, skeeter!) that Cyrus receives higher revenue from her performance than the master of the Fodera.

Yeah, my GF tells me that some of my jokes suck. I think it's time to reevaluate my sense of humor.

I, for one, appreciated the nepotism reference (Billy Ray's kid) as an example, since it kinda supports the whole (lack of) economic mobility point further...

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Hmmm...



Yeah, I think people would still eat at McDonalds.

Even in the WORST case scenarios I've seen:

1) Double labor costs
2) Labor costs account for 1/3 of franchise costs
3) ALL increased cost passed on to consumer

You're looking at an increase in prices of about $1.40 on a Big Mac. It'd go from about the current $4.20 all the way up to ~$5.60.

It also should be noted that a business that is capital-intensive will often absorb wage increases much easier than a firm that is much more labor-intensive. With that said, I have no idea if McDonald's is more capital-intensive or more labor-intensive.

 

[BawanaRik]

This is where I think your missing the point. The lower class and middle class are paid too little, go watch one of the videos someone posted on the first page. ALL the money is at the top,

Gee I'm not at the top and I have plenty of money. I'm not rich but I have three hots and a cot. And running water and a hot shower

This is better than most humans in history could ever hope for.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Yeah, I think people would still eat at McDonalds.

Even in the WORST case scenarios I've seen:

1) Double labor costs
2) Labor costs account for 1/3 of franchise costs
3) ALL increased cost passed on to consumer

You're looking at an increase in prices of about $1.40 on a Big Mac. It'd go from about the current $4.20 all the way up to ~$5.60.

And that's the counter argument many make, but allow me to make another.

Yes, costs go up, but if you don't shop there then what does it matter? The difference is when businesses don't provide affordable wages or access to healthcare (particularly for low income folks) those costs will ultimately get passed on to the tax payer. If businesses cover those costs then we can do away with a lot of welfare programs and can lower taxes meant to cover those costs.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

I, for one, appreciated the nepotism reference (Billy Ray's kid) as an example, since it kinda supports the whole (lack of) economic mobility point further...

Very true. But then I always wonder about Lisa Marie Presley. Her singing career sunk like a stone. *lol*

 

[nortonrider]

I'm back from "working hard" can I retire yet?
no, but I did make enough from my sweat to put a couple of gallons of gas in my truck.

A couple of my recent thoughts:
.Do you guys REALLY think that the rich and powerful are going to let you tax them more? That they are willingly going to relinquish any of their wealth and by default, their power?

. Isn't there are a school of thought that says you give your employees just enough to keep them able to come back to work?
If you paid your employees enough to actually increase their "status", you've given them the ability to leave your employ. To crawl out from under your thumb.
Keep 'em broke and hungry - that way they HAVE to come to work tomorrow.
16 Tons -Tennessee Ernie Ford
"St. Peter do you call me because I can't go,
I owe my soul to the company store".

.How many 3 Economic Class societies are there on the planet?

.It's been proven time and again.... Socialism doesn't work.
You guys can dream all you want, a Utopian society where everything is fair and equal will never happen.

. Blaming and hating people that happened to be born into a family with money is in the end......just jealousy.

 

[aborgman]

Kinda on the same plain:
America makes up 5% of the worlds population and consumes 25% of the worlds resources.
Fair?

No.

Equal?

No.

Balanced?

No

Serfdom on a global scale?

Yes.

 

[MatticusMania]

Gee I'm not at the top and I have plenty of money. I'm not rich but I have three hots and a cot. And running water and a hot shower

This is better than most humans in history could ever hope for.

Are you posting from a prison cell?

 

[BawanaRik]

I, for one, appreciated the nepotism reference (Billy Ray's kid) as an example, since it kinda supports the whole (lack of) economic mobility point further...

Yet we have immigrants coming here with nothing who succeed and prosper.

What do they have that others lack?

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Are you posting from a prison cell?

That's what I was thinking

 

[BawanaRik]

Are you posting from a prison cell?

It's my opinion that was offensive. May I respectfully suggest you stop such behavior.

 

[BawanaRik]

I'm back from "working hard" can I retire yet?
no, but I did make enough from my sweat to put a couple of gallons of gas in my truck.

A couple of my recent thoughts:
.Do you guys REALLY think that the rich and powerful are going to let you tax them more? That they are willingly going to relinquish any of their wealth and by default, their power?

. Isn't there are a school of thought that says you give your employees just enough to keep them able to come back to work?
If you paid your employees enough to actually increase their "status", you've given them the ability to leave your employ. To crawl out from under your thumb.
Keep 'em broke and hungry - that way they HAVE to come to work tomorrow.
16 Tons -Tennessee Ernie Ford
"St. Peter do you call me because I can't go,
I owe my soul to the company store".

.How many 3 Economic Class societies are there on the planet?

.It's been proven time and again.... Socialism doesn't work.
You guys can dream all you want, a Utopian society where everything is fair and equal will never happen.

. Blaming and hating people that happened to be born into a family with money is in the end......just jealousy.

I think things are pretty fair. Fair isn't nice or even pretty.

Fair is if you won't produce you don't consume.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Yet we have immigrants coming here with nothing who succeed and prosper.

What do they have that others lack?

What immigrants are you talking about? There's going to be a world of difference between a Mexican coming with the clothes on their back and an Indian who already has a bachelor's degree and goes to medical school here.

Again, reductionism for complex issues rarely ever works.

 

[MatticusMania]

It's my opinion that was offensive. May I respectful suggest you stop such behavior.

I was asking an honest question based on the wording of your post which gave just such an impression.

May I kindly suggest you make your point more easily understood.