USA Lakland Owners: Any Problems Getting Really Low Action?

[vince a]

You guys are making me nervous. I'm waiting for a check to arrive, and then I'm ordering a Skyline Custom 55-60 from Bass Central sight unseen . . . already talked to Grasshopper . . . just waiting for that darn check. Anyway, you guys discuss issues with USA models and with the Skyline 55-60 (JO) . . . should I be nervous, or . . . what? My Fender MIA Jazz Bass and P Bass 4 stringers are near perfect . . . don't want a hassle with a bass that I've never played before!

 

[Musicman20]

Just make sure it has a return policy.

 

[drpepper]

I guess I'm noticing or paying more attention to these threads and comments because I just got a 55-01 myself.

I don't really understand how this is possible with PLEK. I also don't understand the reports of Lakland not backing these units. The story above where it was $200 out of pocket to deal with a new bass after Lakland's refusal to handle it...I just don't understand that.

I guess partly I'm feeling fortunate. The beautiful setup was one of the first things I noted on taking my bass out of the box. I can't imagine getting lower quality on a unit costing 4 times as much. I dropped the strings just because I could. I've never had a bass that the action could be so low on. I left it at about 1mm for a few days...turns out having the strings that low doesn't really fit with my playing, so I didn't actually like it.

I have to believe that these ones that aren't right are anomalies. The most troubling thing is the refusal to acknowledge the problems that's being reported.

 

[narud]

Sounds like they cut a little extra fall off near the heel. Is it really an issue? You aren't a solo artist doing tapping or whatever, so unless it's a nit to pick, I think I'd just let it slide.

Course, I cant even afford a 55-02, so we come from very different points of view.

listen to this guy. from what youre describing, it sounds like they cut fallaway in the board to prevent buzzing in the upper register (sadowsky does this as well). call lakland and ask them if they are doing that and if so, how much theyre taking off.

 

[lefty007]

I don't really understand how this is possible with PLEK . . . The most troubling thing is the refusal to acknowledge the problems that's being reported.

USA basses are not PLEK'd, only Skylines are.

I do believe that my case is very rare, but yes, I really thought that Bass Central was going to be able to see the problem, which is visible in plain view (to me), and more so when taking measurements. But then again, if those measurements are within specs according to Bass Central, the conclusion is that new Lakland are not for me.

 

[BuffaloBass]

Is the "fallaway" referred to customary? I'm sure the mechanical Plek rig wouldnt cotton to it.

For the record gents, I bought a JO5 , MIK, right from Dan in Chicago ( thru dealer), and the action was most awesome out of the box. In fact, I told them I liked it low, and I had to raise it a bit.

I dont understand y'all spending over 3G's and not spec'ing the bass right at the factory. It must be my poo boy mentality. I'd expect exactly what I ordered.

Assuming I actually communicated to them what that was. Which, it dont sound like Lefty did.

Now, who's bad is that? Hmm?

Since Lefty got to question BC and Lakland; I get to question him. Fair?

So dont be nervous Vince. The source of the anomoly is not clear to me.

 

[narud]

Kripes, you'd think they'd throw their US ones on that fancy arse machine; unless a good luthier could do it better.

Forthe record getns, I bought a JO5 , MIK, right from Dan in Chicago, and the action was most awesome out of the box. In fact, I told them I liked it low, and I had to raise it a bit.

Is the "fallaway" referred to customary? I'm sure the mechanical Plek rig wouldnt cotton to it.

I dont understand y'all spending over 3G's and not spec'ing the bass right at the factory.

fallaway from the 15th fret on is up to a builders philosophy. its there because of a bolt ons neck to stay rigid at the area where the truss rod isnt affecting anything and the possibility of a tongue rise. the fallaway is supposed to allow you to play buzz free in that area. i think i read something where rick turner (could be wrong here) didnt believe in it because youre compensating for an issue that shouldnt be there if built right (or something like that)

a tb'r a while back returned a sadowsky because he couldnt get the action he was used to on his lull because of the fallaway that roger puts into the boards.

 

[drpepper]

USA basses are not PLEK'd, only Skylines are.

I do believe that my case is very rare, but yes, I really thought that Bass Central was going to be able to see the problem, which is visible in plain view (to me), and more so when taking measurements. But then again, if those measurements are within specs according to Bass Central, the conclusion is that new Lakland are not for me.

Interesting...I had assumed from the context that the statement "all Skylines are now plek'd" implied that it was an up-line bonus now ALSO being offered with Skylines.

Yet another thing that doesn't make sense to me. I thought the idea was that plek can simply do a more precise job than a person.

 

[lefty007]

I dont understand y'all spending over 3G's and not spec'ing the bass right at the factory. It must be my poo boy mentality. I'd expect exactly what I ordered.

Assuming I actually communicated to them what that was. Which, it dont sound like Lefty did.
Who's bad is that? Hmm?

I didn't get to order the bass from new, it was in stock at Bass Central.

 

[lefty007]

fallaway from the 15th fret on is up to a builders philosophy. its there because of a bolt ons neck to stay rigid at the area where the truss rod isnt affecting anything and the possibility of a tongue rise. the fallaway is supposed to allow you to play buzz free in that area. i think i read something where rick turner (could be wrong here) didnt believe in it because youre compensating for an issue that shouldnt be there if built right (or something like that)

a tb'r a while back returned a sadowsky because he couldnt get the action he was used to on his lull because of the fallaway that roger puts into the boards.

If this is the case with new Lakland, then I guess that yes, maybe then that could be waht I experienced, and the new specs are not for me. My 1998 55-94 does not have this fallaway, and it's one of the sweetest playing basses I've owned.

Then to give Lakland credit, they didn't get to see the bass in question, so they couldn't tell me whether indeed that's the way they are building necks or not. They were going solely on what Bass Central said, and well, they are experts over there.

 

[narud]

If this is the case with new Lakland, then I guess that yes, maybe then that could be waht I experienced, and the new specs are not for me. My 1998 55-94 does not have this fallaway, and it's one of the sweetest playing basses I've owned.

Then to give Lakland credit, they didn't get to see the bass in question, so they couldn't tell me whether indeed that's the way they are building necks or not. They were going solely on what Bass Central said, and well, they are experts over there.

i had a 55-94 from that era that i couldnt set up that low because of unlevel frets.

i measured my nordy and im running a similar setup as you. a 1/32 at the 12th, 3/64 at the 20th.

im sure they could telling you if theyre doing anything different than they were back then. they woudnt need to see the bass to tell you at least that much.

 

[GregC]

Interesting...I had assumed from the context that the statement "all Skylines are now plek'd" implied that it was an up-line bonus now ALSO being offered with Skylines.

Yet another thing that doesn't make sense to me. I thought the idea was that plek can simply do a more precise job than a person.

Lakland believes that its luthiers can do a better job with fretwork than the PLEK. But since it's a lot more time-consuming and costly than Plek'ing over the long run, they spend their time on the US basses.

Based on my experiences (I own three US Laklands, one Plek'd Skyline and one MIK--non-Plek'd--Skyline, and have played quite a few more of each type), I agree with them. And still dig my Skylines, btw.

As for the OP's issue, all I can really say is that I can't relate. Every US Lakland I've picked up has practically played itself, I consider them the best necks around (and I've played a few Sadowskys and Lulls).

But action so low that you can pretty much breathe on the strings and get notes isn't my preference. I do know that Jauqo, owner of many Laklands, likes super-low action--I can't even play his!

 

[adderas]

I played 3 Laklands yesterday at Sam Ash in NYC and I thought they were pretty bad..

ALL of them had frets that hung over the fretboard. Literally. They would scratch your hand. 1 was really quite bad.

 

[lefty007]

An UPDATE:

Lakland confirmed to me that they indeed use a fall-away design in their basses, and that with the bass set up properly it should yield even lower action than traditional neck designs.

So it seems this is what I experience and the bass simply wasn't set up right to get the action where I wanted it.

In any case, both Bass Central and Lakland came through. I guess if I decided to get try another 55-94 in the future that doesn't yield the action that I want, I just need to take it to a good tech to get it set up right. I thought I had sufficient skills to set up a bass, but maybe not.

Thanks all for your input and I hope this doesn't discourage anybody from dealing with either Bass Central or Lakland.

 

[GregC]

I played 3 Laklands yesterday at Sam Ash in NYC and I thought they were pretty bad..

ALL of them had frets that hung over the fretboard. Literally. They would scratch your hand. 1 was really quite bad.

That sounds like fret sprout, which I think most folks would agree is due to changes in weather/humidity and has happened to basses up and down the price scale. I've experienced it with both Laklands and non-Laklands that I've bought used from different climates.

 

[GregC]

An UPDATE:

Lakland confirmed to me that they indeed use a fall-away design in their basses, and that with the bass set up properly it should yield even lower action than traditional neck designs.

So it seems this is what I experience and the bass simply wasn't set up right to get the action where I wanted it.

In any case, both Bass Central and Lakland came through. I guess if I decided to get try another 55-94 in the future that doesn't yield the action that I want, I just need to take it to a good tech to get it set up right. I thought I had sufficient skills to set up a bass, but maybe not.

Thanks all for your input and I hope this doesn't discourage anybody from dealing with either Bass Central or Lakland.

Thanks for the followup, that's good news.

 

[SJLee]

Could someone elaborate on the Fall Away design and how it allows for lower action settings?

An UPDATE:

Lakland confirmed to me that they indeed use a fall-away design in their basses, and that with the bass set up properly it should yield even lower action than traditional neck designs.

So it seems this is what I experience and the bass simply wasn't set up right to get the action where I wanted it.

In any case, both Bass Central and Lakland came through. I guess if I decided to get try another 55-94 in the future that doesn't yield the action that I want, I just need to take it to a good tech to get it set up right. I thought I had sufficient skills to set up a bass, but maybe not.

Thanks all for your input and I hope this doesn't discourage anybody from dealing with either Bass Central or Lakland.

 

[Carey]

Here's my take on all this if anyone is interested.

From the original post I wonder if the neck was set too straight. An optimal setup should have relief from the first fret all the way to the last. If the truss rod is too tight (and the strings set too high) you'll have exactly the symptom you describe. Low action from the first fret to somewhere aroud the 12th and then it'll get higher. Typically, to correct this, you'd loosen the neck and lower the strings at the saddles. There is a sweet spot between neck relief and saddle height where everything should be as good as it can get. The guys at Lakland really know what they're doing and have been doing it for a long time so I'd be really surprised if the neck had some kind of issue. But, necks are made of wood and things can happen.

Regarding "fall away": When the neck is under tension there should be no apparrent fall away. The idea behind adding fall away is that it's done before the frets are installed to approximately guess where the neck will pull to under tension. Skilled builders develop a pretty good idea of how much of this they need over time and usually nail it in the finished product. We try to eliminate this guess work here in our shop by stressing the neck to simulate string tension when we sand the fingerboard true before installing the frets. Look up Stew Mac's Erlewine Neck Jig to get a better idea of the concept.

You should not see fall away in a neck at pitch. If you do the truss rod is too tight, or there is a serious issue with the neck.

Hope that helps.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

It's why I bought my used 4-94 at GC - I picked up and played it - holy cow was the action low...and it sounded great. Done deal.

This is really why you need to try before you buy.

 

[SJLee]

Thanks.

Here's my take on all this if anyone is interested.

From the original post I wonder if the neck was set too straight. An optimal setup should have relief from the first fret all the way to the last. If the truss rod is too tight (and the strings set too high) you'll have exactly the symptom you describe. Low action from the first fret to somewhere aroud the 12th and then it'll get higher. Typically, to correct this, you'd loosen the neck and lower the strings at the saddles. There is a sweet spot between neck relief and saddle height where everything should be as good as it can get. The guys at Lakland really know what they're doing and have been doing it for a long time so I'd be really surprised if the neck had some kind of issue. But, necks are made of wood and things can happen.

Regarding "fall away": When the neck is under tension there should be no apparrent fall away. The idea behind adding fall away is that it's done before the frets are installed to approximately guess where the neck will pull to under tension. Skilled builders develop a pretty good idea of how much of this they need over time and usually nail it in the finished product. We try to eliminate this guess work here in our shop by stressing the neck to simulate string tension when we sand the fingerboard true before installing the frets. Look up Stew Mac's Erlewine Neck Jig to get a better idea of the concept.

You should not see fall away in a neck at pitch. If you do the truss rod is too tight, or there is a serious issue with the neck.

Hope that helps.