Useable Preamp or Amp Distortion

[bassballs27]

I've been looking at adding a rackmount preamp or amp to my collection that is has a big focus on distortion or overdrive with a different flavor than what I already have.

I've been having fun lately with my Mesa 400+ and with the classic method of cranking the input gain very high (to like 8 or 9) and then slowly dialing up the master volume very slow.....say just a little past two.
You can get amazingly crazy distortion from the 400+.....and it easily gets loud with such high gain.

I had an Ampeg SVT-2Pro recently (and sold it) and it produced some decent distortion with a different voice compared with the Mesa, which truly is SVT distortion. When I sold it, I figured I might try an Ampeg SVP-Pro one day, but doubt it will reproduce the exact SVT distortion with a solid state poweramp as the integrated SVT head.

Anyone had any experience with some different brands of rackmount tube preamps or possibly All-Tube heads that produce very useable (or dare I use the subjective word GOOD distortion) for bass?

There are plenty of all tube preamps out there that simply produce decent CLEAN bass......looking for distortion or overdrive that is very controllable. The Mesa Titan V12 is actually a very good example, but I'm trying to steer the posting to just tube based preamps or all-tube heads. However, if you know of another decent hybrid head that is on par with the Titan for distortion control, I'm all ears.

Some my suggest that I just use a stomp box. I've got a few of those.....but tube distortion seems to satisfy my ears a tad better.

I do have my disposal a QSC PLX2402 and a Demeter VTHF-300M for testing out a rackmount preamp that produces distortion.

Let's see how this goes.......

 

[jumblemind]

Not worked up to one myself yet, but you can get a Verellen Meatsmoke in rackmount form.

 

[bassballs27]

Thanks jumblemind. The Meatsmoke sounds like a great option. Anyone have experience with these?

Any other recommendations?

 

[JustSomeDude]

Pretty expensive now, but the Matchless Hotbox was a great front end for Overdrive.
Basically a Matchless preamp in stomp box form.

Think they were reissued a few years ago.
Would imagine that it could be built for $100.
Had 2 12ax7's as I recall.

 

[DigitalMan]

The Tech21 VT Bass Rackmount has great sounding and controllable distortion. The drive and character knobs work together to provide a lot of possibilities. Think 70's & early 80's Geddy Lee and you won't be far off.

 

[bassballs27]

The Tech21 VT Bass Rackmount has great sounding and controllable distortion. The drive and character knobs work together to provide a lot of possibilities. Think 70's & early 80's Geddy Lee and you won't be far off.

Hmmm.....interesting. I'll have to see what Tech21 is offerings these days. I do own a Bass Driver DI that I've had forever.
I always found it to be very scooped sounding.......sounded cool....but always saw it as a pedal as oppose to a preamp.

I might just give this one a look as well as the Verellen Meatsmoke. The problem is the Verellen might be difficult for me to get ahold of.

Thanks for the replies so far!

 

[Fuzzbass]

The Tech21 VT Bass Rackmount has great sounding and controllable distortion. The drive and character knobs work together to provide a lot of possibilities. Think 70's & early 80's Geddy Lee and you won't be far off.

Another vote for the SansAmp preamps. The RBI is the rackmount version of the Bass Driver DI pedal, the RPM is the rack version of the Para Driver DI, and the VT Bass Rackmount is self-explanatory. I own all three rack preamps. There are minor differences between pedal and rack versions, but I prefer the expanded patching capability of the rack units.

Yes, the SansAmps are solid state, but they do a fantastic job of tube emulation at an extremely reasonable price. My favorite rig of all time was the vintage SVT, especially when run loud on a big stage, but I'm now a vintage guy (in terms of calendar age) and don't want to deal with the size and weight. Another advantage to the SansAmps is that you can get very close to the SVT/V4B tone -- including the tone of overdriven power tubes -- and unlike those amps, you can dial in your preferred level of overdrive (or no overdrive at all) at any volume.

Yes, there are many choices available for tube OD but the SansAmps are well worth considering, plus they're easy to find and affordable.

Hmmm.....interesting. I'll have to see what Tech21 is offerings these days. I do own a Bass Driver DI that I've had forever.
I always found it to be very scooped sounding.......sounded cool....but always saw it as a pedal as oppose to a preamp.

Just caught this. The BDDI does have the inherent mid scoop. In can be mitigated by rolling Blend back to 1 o'clock (give or take), however mid scoop is much more easily avoided on the other SansAmp preamps. The RPM is a much flatter unit even when Blend is maxxed out, and the VT Rackmount only does mid scoop when the Character knob is set left of noon. Character at noon is fairly flat, and rolling Character right of noon increases mids and distortion (dist. can also be increased with Drive).

Good luck in your search, and have fun!

 

[bassballs27]

Another vote for the SansAmp preamps. The RBI is the rackmount version of the Bass Driver DI pedal, the RPM is the rack version of the Para Driver DI, and the VT Bass Rackmount is self-explanatory. I own all three rack preamps. There are minor differences between pedal and rack versions, but I prefer the expanded patching capability of the rack units.

Yes, the SansAmps are solid state, but they do a fantastic job of tube emulation at an extremely reasonable price. My favorite rig of all time was the vintage SVT, especially when run loud on a big stage, but I'm now a vintage guy (in terms of calendar age) and don't want to deal with the size and weight. Another advantage to the SansAmps is that you can get very close to the SVT/V4B tone -- including the tone of overdriven power tubes -- and unlike those amps, you can dial in your preferred level of overdrive (or no overdrive at all) at any volume.

Yes, there are many choices available for tube OD but the SansAmps are well worth considering, plus they're easy to find and affordable.



Just caught this. The BDDI does have the inherent mid scoop. In can be mitigated by rolling Blend back to 1 o'clock (give or take), however mid scoop is much more easily avoided on the other SansAmp preamps. The RPM is a much flatter unit even when Blend is maxxed out, and the VT Rackmount only does mid scoop when the Character knob is set left of noon. Character at noon is fairly flat, and rolling Character right of noon increases mids and distortion (dist. can also be increased with Drive).

Good luck in your search, and have fun!

Thanks Fuzzbass. A much appreciated response.

I can definitely understand why Tech21 added Mid band in the pedal and rack units for sure. Makes complete sense.

I think I'm going to dust off my Bass Driver tonight.......going to see what it is capable of again. It has definitely been awhile.

 

[bassballs27]

Hey guys, anyone else have any comments?

Any experiences with some more (or more recent) rackmount preamps out there that provide good distortion?

I've got an All-Tube Power amp and a big solid state power amp.........looking to try something different?

The Ampeg SVP-Pro or SWR Instellar Overdrive haven't been mentioned yet. There's go to be more!

Maybe I'm stuck with the Aguilar AGRO or Electro-Harmonix Bass Deluxe Big Muff?
The seem to be the only pedals worth investigating. Heck......I've got a old Sovtek Big Muff and a EH Little Big Muff too.
They just tend to suck the life out of the bass.

Would love some more suggestions. Might even consider some integrated all tube or hybrid heads.
Already mentioned the SVT-2Pro and the Titan V12 above (might as well mention the Big Block 750 too)

 

[bassballs27]

Hmmm......the Darkglass B7K looks interesting......man......maybe it really is an effects pedal I need instead of another rackmount preamp. However, I could still use another rackmount preamp regardless. Any help will be appreciated.

 

[bassballs27]

The more I look on the internet.......the more I find.

Here's something interesting:
http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2014/04/04/wounded-paw-effects-announces-black-sheep-bass-preamp/

Anyone have any experience with these?

 

[mick46]

I am currently using a Dave Hall Amps rack pre-amp.

This could be ideal for you... 3 12AX7 valves, two switchable channels with active 3-band eq on them both and and many other features / tone shaping options.

Oh yes, and as much distortion as you could possibly wish for!.. Even manages a semi-convincing Lemmy.

Not cheap at about £450 (UK), but I love it .. running it at the moment through a Crown XLS1500 into a Barefaced Big Twin 2, simply awesome!

 

[bassballs27]

I am currently using a Dave Hall Amps rack pre-amp.

This could be ideal for you... 3 12AX7 valves, two switchable channels with active 3-band eq on them both and and many other features / tone shaping options.

Oh yes, and as much distortion as you could possibly wish for!.. Even manages a semi-convincing Lemmy.

Not cheap at about £450 (UK), but I love it .. running it at the moment through a Crown XLS1500 into a Barefaced Big Twin 2, simply awesome!

Oh.....that sounds cool. However, you're definitely right......not cheap....and unfortunately not available 'across the pond'.
Great recommendation though.

 

[monkeyfinger]

My favorite preamp distortion comes from a Verellen Meatsmoke. It is available as a rack-mount unit or large pedal.

 

[esa372]

Personally, my favorite distortion comes from the TubeWorks Blue Tube RT-904 rackmount pre-amp:

With that bias knob, the distortion can get downright blistering.

 

[Fuzzbass]

The Ampeg SVP-Pro or SWR Instellar Overdrive haven't been mentioned yet. There's go to be more!

Oops, my bad. Both of these are in my collection. I'll include them in a brief comparo with all the preamps I own. In short, if I own it then I love it.

SWR Interstellar Overdrive has very-close-to-flat response with EQ set flat. The EL-34 tubes give rich thick overdrive, designed to go from clean to way-over-the-top fuzz. The Enhance (mid scoop) knob can be useful. The 3 band EQ is nicely dialed in with bass, treble, and 200Hz low mid growl. A negative I've read about is that output is low, it won't get full output from some power amps (never noticed any weakness with my Stew World 2.1 amps though).

Ampeg SVP-Pro (mine's a USA fwiw) has the most versatile EQ! You have contour switches plus the amazing vari-mid control, plus treble and bass. There's also a graphic EQ, but it's solid state and sounds like crap when it clips so I never use it. The remaining EQ is plenty versatile enough. Overdrive characteristics are good, pretty easy to dial in what you want, it's all about cranking Gain and Drive to taste.

Reiner Amplification ("JGR") tube preamp: designed and hand-built by Jonathan Reiner (Talkbasser JGR). Designed to be extremely flat and clean, and allow you to dial in great overdrive. Four-band EQ. Jonathan uses top-quality components, and he's a one-man shop, so it's expensive. Fantastic unit, though!

SansAmp preamps in general: they are solid state, but do a very respectable job of emulating power tube distortion (many all-tube preamps fail at this). Also, they can easily be run together in parallel to combine clean and dirty signals (or two different dirty signals, or whatever): CHECK THIS THREAD

SansAmp RBI: rackmount version of venerable BDDI with mid control. Mid-scooped when Blend is set full, which is why I don't set Blend full. The defining characteristic for me is the Presence control: if you want aggressive ice-pick-to-the-brain treble along with your OD, turn Presence to noon or above (important to note that it's a boost-only control). It's fun because it can give a piercing bite (including rich upper harmonics) to basses with flats or dead rounds. Of course you can get warm vintage tones by keeping Presence off and Treble down. IME the distortion doesn't get as far into fuzz-land as the others in my collection, but that makes it easy to dial in subtler shades of OD, and the RBI will distort when you push it.

SansAmp RPM: flatter than the RBI -- less mid scoop. The overdrive gets fuzzier than the RBI. The Sweep Mid control is the bomb! Goes from 170Hz-3kHz (I believe), cut or boost. The RPM is preferred by those who want to avoid the BDDI/RBI mid scoop (but that mid scoop can be mitigated as noted just above).

SansAmp VT-RM (VT Bass rackmount): I've been having a blast with this since it came out late last year. It's definitely the most SVT-like of the SansAmps, especially the power tube OD emulation. Also, the Character knob is sweet: Character at noon is called the B-15 setting, but to me it's the SVT-without-Ultra-Lo setting. As you turn Character left of noon, you gradually dial in more mid scoop: much more useful than an Ultra-Lo switch! As you dial Character right of noon, you get more mids and distortion. Doing this will lower headroom, so keep Drive low unless you want really fuzzed-out tones. The other magic feature is the Blend control. I have a lot of fun dialing in heavier distortion, but dialing Blend back keeps the heavy OD from overwhelming my tone. With this device alone you can get a wide variety of tones, bordering on Geddy, Squire, Entwistle, but running in parallel with another SansAmp will expand the tone/OD palettes much further.

Conclusion: there are of course many other nice options for preamp OD, but between the six I mentioned above (collected over the past decade), I have absolutely zero preamp GAS.

 

[chaosMK]

I am dying to try a Darkglass B3K or B7K with my Bass 400. Might be worth considering. They are pedals but the tone is amazing. Great for the more modern metal kind of stuff I do.

I like running my Sansamp BDDI blended in the FX loop.

I own the Titan presently. Not crazy about the on board OD though I probably need more time with it in volume situations. I havent been able to dial in the grainy and kind of tight distortion tone I had in mind.