Using an older porta studio to get better recordings

[tothemax]

Our practice room is in a church spare classroom, not very large but the price is right and we can store gear there... The BL has a basic PA setup with a small mixer (4 XLR channels) that we use for vocals. As mentioned this is a small room with a 6 piece band, since joining this band I've been recording our practices (something they had not done previously). First with an Tascam DR-05 and more recently with a DR-40x, the DR-40x having 4 channels allowed me to grab the output from mixer so the vocals were not buried in the room sound. That said, while the DR-05 was similar to old school setting a cassette boom box in the back of the room, the stereo mix was complete with the vocals usually lost in the mix. Using the split mic'ing with the DR-40, the vocals are crystal clear while the room mix is a mishmash and while the recordings are much better from the DR-40 they require a fair amount of editing for a decent mix. Mostly volume matching between the mixer and room tracks.

As the new guy, and while the band seems to really like having recordings, it's a lot of extra work on my end to clean up a 2.5 hour practice recording. The BL and another member both have older porta studio's, one is a Boss BR-1600CD and the other is a similar Zoom model, both support 8 XLR channels. While neither of these are high end products, I figure they are equivalent to the Mackie Mix8 in the room now.

Looking at Q&D method to get a better mix with the existing gear, possibly using one of the porta studios on nights that we'd like to get decent recordings. Currently we use the PA for 3 vocal mic's and congas, amps in the room are a Leslie cab (keys), Mesa Boogie (guitar), Fender Deluxe (guitar), and an Ampeg BA-115 (onboard DI). There is a full drum kit (it usually comes through pretty clear with the DR units - built in condenser mics). For a low key band , it still gets loud...

So I guess my question would be how to best use the 8 channels for decent mix. The Leslie, Fender, and Boogie amps are in close proximity, so I'm wondering if an overhead condenser mic might work, possibly two spaced out with the second closer to the drums (placed off to the side of the first group of amps). Both of the porta studios have hard drives, USB outputs, and CD burners, so I'm thinking that they should do multi-track recordings (hopefully .wav output). I'm willing to purchase a Behringer MS800 XLR splitter so we could share the existing PA sends ($59 + cables).

Anyway, I thought I'd reach out... I haven't played with a porta studio since my Tascam DP-01 20 years ago. As long as the condenser mic's aren't going to the PA, feedback shouldn't be an issue in the small room. There are times that trying to work with antique gear is just not worth the time and effort...

I've found that having recordings from practices really help, so I'm willing to put the time in to try and get something working.

Cheers...

 

[silky smoove]

Is stereo imaging absolutely necessary? If not, and assuming these are just intended to be rehearsal recordings, I would use a mic with an omnidirectional polar pattern to capture the live sound of the performance. Play with the positioning of the mic and the levels of each instrument to achieve a balance. Take a split from the three vocal mics and capture them separately so you can bring them up to avoid the issues you're describing above. I'd stop there and call it good for a rehearsal recording. That's not too different than what you're already doing, albeit using four channels.

 

[pingvuiini]

I've been using an Olympus LS-11 pocket recorder for rehearsal and even live recording for years. Very easy and fast setup and teardown on a camera tripod or microphone stand w/ adaptor. No having to deal with cables and mics, just batteries, SD cards and occasionally a tribble wind screen for outdoors.

Get home, dump the file(s) on my computer and import to Garage Band or other DAW software and edit away. Bounce down into a mp3 file and send to everyone via text.

The Olympus LS-11 is no longer made but there are dozens of similar pocket recorders available.

 

[tothemax]

PV,
I appreciate the input, for many years I've used my Tascam DR-05 to record practices, but always in a larger room where I could get enough distance to get a room sound. This a small space, like 16' x 20' with a 6 piece band, luckily we don't have a heavy hitting drummer. The DR-40 recordings are much better than the DR-05, but it's really tough to get good vocals in that room.

SSmooth,
I'm not stuck on stereo. What do you suggest for an omni-directional mic? Room placement? The drum kit and PA speakers are on the back wall, as is the Leslie cab, the rest of us are a semi circle around the drummer.

I don't do a lot of editing, just use Audacity to cut out chatter, add some EQ, Compression, and balance out the volume. You can really hear the recording difference between the DR-05 and DR-40. I'm just taking the record outs from the mixer into the channels 3 & 4 and leaving 1 & 2 on the built in condenser mics. That example of Evil Ways I put the DR-40 on top of one of the PA monitors (the Leslie cab is just under it). To get a good balance between the room sound and vocals does take some work. Having 8 channels with a baseline mix seems like a good way to go...

Older recording with the DR-05 - Moondance

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Recent recording with the DR-40x - Evil Ways

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[silky smoove]

SSmooth,
I'm not stuck on stereo. What do you suggest for an omni-directional mic? Room placement? The drum kit and PA speakers are on the back wall, as is the Leslie cab, the rest of us are a semi circle around the drummer.

Any multi-pattern LDC will usually have omni as one of its options. Any modern LDC from a reputable brand that you can find on sale for Black Friday will do nicely. As for placement, if it were me, I'd try flying it over everyone and would then adjust the placement until the right balance is achieved. You may also need to move players around a little or get them to turn up/down as-needed.

 

[tothemax]

I did some reading in the DR-40x reference manual last night, it looks like I can split the external inputs and have individual level controls. So I may try setting up a couple of overhead condenser mics with the built in internal mics. It still only outputs two stereo tracks but this seems much easier than trying to integrate the older porta-studio inputs. From my reading you can either bypass the built in condenser mics using the external inputs in 2 track mode, or use both the internal plus external mics or line inputs in 4 track mode. The internal mic levels are not split, the unit does support X or A\B mic patterns, and seems to get a pretty decent recording in the default X pattern mode. The BL has couple of condenser mics, not sure what they are. I have an Se X1a that might be a good option. I'll do some testing and follow up.