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Using IEM in Rehearsal VS Live

TBPlayerOC

TBPlayerOC

Oct 17, 2013
317
864
Orange, CA
#1
My band has and in ear rig that we use for rehearsal and live. It consists of a Behringer X32 rack, Carvin IEM units, Split Snake, Behringer P1 for the drummer. Our stage setup is 1 electric guitar, bass, acousitic guitar, keyboard, electronic drums.

Here is the issue. In rehearsal everything sounds great. In some of the venues we play, there are subs under the stage. When we play, our in ears get a little muddy and it can be hard to each other.

Is there anything we can do to reduce the effect of the house PA on our in ears?

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
#3
You can put an EQ on each of your IEM mix busses.. And get rid of it.
Unless you're sending muddy bass to FOH, you should not hear it in your IEM mix. Maybe they are adding more bottom end at FOH!
Either way it should NOT be hard to hear each other. That's the whole point of ears.. get rid of external noise. Unless the subs are totally overpowering the venue.. which is entirely possible and you can do nothing about.
 
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#4
One thing I have started doing lately is cranking up my body pack. This allows me to turn down the individual channels. That helps with bleed over a LOT.

What kind of buds do you have? The more isolation the better.
 
#7
TBPlayerOC said:
In some of the venues we play, there are subs under the stage.
Click to expand...

Cardioid subs.

It's another sub, set up out of phase, and time delay that blocks the bass going to the stage.
Look them up on the internet on how they work.
Modern power amps with DSP's can do this easy. One channel with a delay carefully calculated based on how far apart the subs are.
They house might have this but just don't have it set up right.

You can't just feed and out of phase to your ear buds because you move. It's not a set distance like you do with subs.
 
#8
If the subs are under the stage, I believe the problem is largely due to bone conduction The stage surface is vibrating like crazy because of the pressure provided by the subs. That energy from the stage vibrations is conducted through bone all the way to your cochlea.

I would try applying an HPF to your monitor mix. Set the frequency so the sound in the IEMs integrates with the subs, sort of like a 2-way speaker. Subs are often crossed somewhere between about 80hz an 100hz. So start there and then raise the HPF as high as you need to be able to balance the IEM level against the build up of lows.

My guess is this will be somewhat tricky thing to manage, and it require some time and skill to do it well. Part of the problem is the frequency response coming from the stage vibrations is unlikely to be even. Although you get lots of lows, certain frequencies will be dominant, while others are missing.

Another problem is occlusion effect. You need a good seal for the best bass response, but when you seal your ear canal you get a resonance behind the plug called occlusion effect. My perception is this resonance is in the low mids and tends to cause a lot of masking in the mix.

Ref: Link Removed

Ideally you apply corrective EQ so the sound is more natural. Essentially you apply a dip that is the mirror image of the peak caused by occlusion effect. Everyone's IEM and ear combination will result in a different frequency response. This means everyone needs their own tailored EQ curve.
 
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#9
This is not an expert opinion.

I think there are three ways to address this:

1. Increase isolation.
2. EQ the in-ear mix to take the sub wash into account.
3. Increase the volume of the in-ears to match or even overcome the sub wash.

To increase isolation, you may need different tips (and you want to make sure that your IEMs aren't the ambient kind that allow outside sounds to be heard). You may also consider isolation from the stage itself by standing on some type of isolation mat or platform to reduce vibration.

EQing the in-ear mix to reduce low frequencies may help - the sub wash can be a part of your local mix. This might pose a problem, however, based on delay factors between the IEMs and the PA, plus any programmed sub delay. (In fact, thinking about it, I think this is likely your core issue and the source of the muddiness. If sounds and transients aren't aligned perfectly, it'll sound muddy if the IEM volume isn't set to overpower the ambience. If they are aligned, it shouldn't cause much of an issue regardless of volume, at least based on my experience.)

Finally, you can simply increase the IEM volume to overcome the sub wash. This should not be difficult to do and should not require excessive volume if you have a good ear seal. That said, depending on your tastes, your IEMs might be louder than you would prefer. (For what it's worth, I use the triple-flange tips that came with my Shure 425s, and they work really well for my ear shape in terms of isolation. None of the other tips worked for me. Subs haven't been a problem, although I admittedly haven't worked with under-stage subs with my in-ears yet. However, it doesn't take much for me to overcome ambience with an in-ear mix.)

Hope this helps.
 
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