Using One Finger Per Fret And Being Uncomfortable

[thmsjordan]

I started on upright. My first electric bass teacher was an upright player who taught me to just use upright fingerings lower on the neck. As I go up the neck I start using four fingers once it is comfortable. This was very useful in that I didn't have to re-learn tunes using different fingerings once I started gigging on electric. To this day your can see Geddy Lee, Lee Sklar, and plenty other players using a 1-2-3 or 1-2-4 fingering lower on the neck. Honestly it works fine and has never slowed me down. Brian Bromberg even occasionally drops into doublebass thumb position once he is past the octave/12th fret.

A short clip on Geddy Lee soloing. I don't see him using 4th finger here. He seems OK without it.


Here is bromberg un-apologetically mixing 'regular' fingerings with thumb position. Again, total deviation from "standard" fingering.


I guess my point is that I don't see where it has to be a religion to play one way or the other. For upright players we are happy (and quite nimble btw) using Simandl fingerings similar to what Geddy lee and Brian Bromberg do in the above videos, although I can see how migrating from guitar might make you want to stay with what you know throughout the entire neck. One might argue that you can catch more without shifting using 1-2-3-4 fingerings. THat may be but I have never run into anything I can't handle using fingerings like what you see in the videos here.

Not trashing any particular technique, just advocating for a more flexible approach since that approach obviously works as well.

 

[Donald Thompson]

So many different opinions. Seems like there isn't a standard pedagogy for bass guitar like the upright.

 

[bolophonic]

Keep practicing your weak fingers, but don't let anyone force you into using strict techniques that don't work for your personal ergonomics.

 

[Paul New]

I'm going to break ranks here. I work with a teacher who's a Berklee grad and a pretty advanced player. I have small hands, and we've discussed this at length. HIS bottom line is that every body is ergonomically different, and the more important thing than playing in rote positional ways is to make sure you aren't harming yourself.

If you experience pain, that is your body telling you "what you're doing is no good for you." If you ignore it you will end up, as I have, with ganglion cysts, trigger finger, and other problems that aren't easily fixed.

That said, he works with me to help me learn to play WELL in every position, and if I use a fingering pattern that's different from what he prescribed, I'll have to explain why that works better for me. As long as I have a reason for it, it's not a problem for him.

Now, maybe if I were a true beginner he'd be trying to get me to conform more to convention, but he also knows I'm not going to do a seismic shift in how I play after doing this for 40 years. Bottom line for him is that I should keep doing what works for me.

That said, I use my pinky all the time, and it's plenty strong. I use it often for octaves and fifths. Use it in place of the ring finger to build strength and dexterity if that is your goal.

I've taken some technique lessons with Dario Deidda, just video, who is strictly ofpf. He teaches a very structured method for everything. He's a monster player, and i tried for quite a while to use his method, but would always revert to Simandl in the lower positions. So I checked with a colleague of his who is also a monster player and pretty well known around here (i won't name) and he said that he tried for years to play like Darrio, but finally had to come up with his own hybrid style. I guess that's where i'm at too.

 

[Egg250]

Josh, the bassbuzz guy, and other reasonable people have said using 3 fingers or all 4 fingers are both useful methods. Beginners may want to start with the 3 finger technique as there seems to be less chance of injury. Long fingered types may not suffer the hand fatigue the rest of us do.

For me, I use a blend of those techniques. If my fretting hand is fairly static, OFPF is likely what I will use. If I am moving around the fretboard I will use 3 fingers, typically my pinky instead of my ring finger, but sometimes both. Even if my fretting hand is static, if I'm playing a busy line, stretching that pinky out often, I will shift to the 3-finger technique to avoid fatigue and injury. I know some of you reading this is saying "he must have a really sloppy technique". I don't think so. It works for me.

To the OP, learn both techniques, as you are able. Figure out which works best for you. If your instructor won't support a different technique, maybe find a new instructor that will teach techniques better suited.

 

[MarshallAC50Stack]

Technically, you can get away with murder on the electric bass guitar. Look at John Entwhistle's left hand position! Sid Viscous did fine holding the neck like an axe handle.

Combining the 1, 2, 4 string bass approach with 1, 2, 3, 4 guitar fingerings can be a good compromise. It's nice to have an understanding of both. The concept of getting 1-1 shifts out of the way ASAP, putting half steps between 1-2 and 3-4 (or 2-4) and avoiding ascending 4-4 shifts has been good advice. Keeping fingers down helps develop independence. An habituated 1, 2, 3 approach is self-limiting and hard to even watch!

 

[jnuts1]

My teacher wanted me to use the pinkey and ring finger to play the 7 and the eight scale degree. I'm finding this uncomfortable and I prefer to shift to using my pointer finger and middle finger to play the bass lines. He says it's better to get more "strength" by using them independently, but I tend to get more fret buzz and mess up notes more often by doing this. Should I keep practicing using one finger per fret?

you should listen to your teacher. it will be very valuable one day. im mostly not using my ring finger unless its a run. my pinky does a lot of the work and its way easier.

 

[Koshchei]

My teacher wanted me to use the pinkey and ring finger to play the 7 and the eight scale degree. I'm finding this uncomfortable and I prefer to shift to using my pointer finger and middle finger to play the bass lines. He says it's better to get more "strength" by using them independently, but I tend to get more fret buzz and mess up notes more often by doing this. Should I keep practicing using one finger per fret?

Yes. Keep practicing.

Economy of movement is absolutely fundamental to developing an aptitude on any musical instrument, and most fundamental is using all of your fingers efficiently and effectively.

 

[SteveCS]

That's normally how I hold the bass. My teacher is trying to fix it.

OK. Regardless of if you choose a 3-finger or 4-finger approach there is a lot of work to do on your hand-shape. Plenty of posts about it, with detailed pictures and analysis, if you want to look them up - I won't bog this thread down with a ton of stuff that is readily available elsewhere. Incidentally, your teacher can't fix it - only you can do that. If they don't have effective and clear advice - this stuff isn't difficult - you might want to look elsewhere

Ironically, my bass teacher is saying I'm shifting too much for whole tones on the double bass.
...

If your string-bass hand-shape is as off-kilter as your electric bass hand-shape then I'm not surprised at your teacher's comments. You should be easily covering a whole-tone in position without moving your thumb or rolling your wrist. That is the whole point of the hand-shape. In order to play reliably in tune the hand and fingers must work and move together as a unit controlled and positioned by the whole arm, using the weight of the arm (not a finger/thumb vice-grip) to get the strings down. Locate position with the thumb then drop the fingers into place on the fingerboard, spaced according to the position you are in.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

I am no pro, but have played for years. I personally like one finger per fret, but it is harder at the low frets. I have "banana fingers"; good for bass, but guitar not so much...

I just skimmed the posts here, but I don't think I saw much about "thumb-pivots" and "shifting". Some folks with small hands (or double-basses) swear by it...

 

[BismarckHerring]

I just skimmed the posts here, but I don't think I saw much about "thumb-pivots" and "shifting". Some folks with small hands (or double-basses) swear by it...

They've been mentioned. But I agree with SteveCS, work on your hand position first, that seems to be the root of the problem. You can't really do thumb pivots in that position.

 

[logdrum]

Where on the fingerboard is this? Lower down, I use an upright technique and typically don't use my pinky. Above the fifth fret, however, I do.

I play upright and the pinky finger is used even on first and half positions (lower). Using Simandl, it is used in conjunction with the ring finger for added strength but the pinky tips touches the strings. As you describe which I assume as index, middle and 3rd, that is still a stretch for most people
On thumb position on the high notes, the pinky finger is not used on upright but you can on bass guitar

A person with medium hands should be able to do one finger per fret (4 fret stretch) after the 5th to 7th fret on a 34 inch scale bass guitar, but if it is an issue specially pain, I'll stick with 1,2 3+4 fingering. No shame on that.

 

[Aaron Singer]

How does your teacher not know this?: (Pianists and Piano Teachers know this and caution students to approach the strength/independence of the 3rd and 4th fingers with care.)
From the Internet (below): (also Google and read the history of 19th century Pianist Robert Schumann and his catastrophic result of trying to "...strengthen the 3rd and 4th fingers...")
Many people will tell you (correctly) that the third and fourth fingers share a tendon. It is the extensor tendon, the one that lifts the finger that they (partially) share. If you keep all your fingers down, and try to extend the fourth alone, it will likely not rise as high as the others can.

Thanks and Be Well.
Donald(!) Kasper

Schumann used a mechanical device to raise and separate fingers to improve independence, and damaged his fingers. I doubt the bass teacher in question advocates this method, and there is no reason for your critical comment. Why undermine a student's teacher with a completely irrelevant story?
Also, it is the ring finger that is hard to raise independently and not the pinkie.

 

[WG Plum]

I play upright and the pinky finger is used even on first and half positions (lower). Using Simandl, it is used in conjunction with the ring finger for added strength but the pinky tips touches the strings. As you describe which I assume as index, middle and 3rd, that is still a stretch for most people
On thumb position on the high notes, the pinky finger is not used on upright but you can on bass guitar

A person with medium hands should be able to do one finger per fret (4 fret stretch) after the 5th to 7th fret on a 34 inch scale bass guitar, but if it is an issue specially pain, I'll stick with 1,2 3+4 fingering. No shame on that.

Yes, I misspoke when I wrote that I did not use my pinky - 1,2, 3+4 in lower positions is what I meant. If I could edit that post I would.

 

[Don Kasper]

Schumann used a mechanical device to raise and separate fingers to improve independence, and damaged his fingers. I doubt the bass teacher in question advocates this method, and there is no reason for your critical comment. Why undermine a student's teacher with a completely irrelevant story?
Also, it is the ring finger that is hard to raise independently and not the pinkie.

Hi Aaron,
I've had my say regarding the OP's issue(s) and I stand by my earlier comments - I'll let the TB Hive take 'em or leave 'em as they see fit.
Thanks for your participation and interest.

 

[Aaron Singer]

Hi Aaron,
I've had my say regarding the OP's issue(s) and I stand by my earlier comments - I'll let the TB Hive take 'em or leave 'em as they see fit.
Thanks for your participation and interest.

You stand by that nonsense? LOL
Save the sarcasm for someone who cares.

 

[lermgalieu]

To me, it isn't really about how one ends up fingering notes in practice. I still think everyone should do one-finger-per-fret exercises all the way up and down the neck. I tend to use Simandl fingering on frets 1-5, but not all the time. Practicing 1FPF gave me the flexibility to do both when needed, or when I feel like it. Makes your hand stronger and makes you more versatile.

Edit: As an example, I for some reason decided to write a line recently that has me holding an E9 (E on the 7th fret of the A string, B on the 9th fret of the D string, and F# on the 11th fret of the G string) for an extended period of time while I play arpeggios. It's hard to do, and would have been impossible if I didn't regularly work on pinky independence.

 

[spector_boogie]

I posted a similar thread last week about getting my pinky as strong as the other 3. It's a PITA for sure, and I'm slowly working on it, but it'll be worth it in the end!! I need it for a good bit of the fret jumps my new band requires, and I've also intentionally been using my pinky instead of ring finger even on shorter transitions, which is also helping a lot.

Hang in there, I definitely wish I had time for lessons nowadays!

 

[prowla]

I started on upright. My first electric bass teacher was an upright player who taught me to just use upright fingerings lower on the neck. As I go up the neck I start using four fingers once it is comfortable. This was very useful in that I didn't have to re-learn tunes using different fingerings once I started gigging on electric. To this day your can see Geddy Lee, Lee Sklar, and plenty other players using a 1-2-3 or 1-2-4 fingering lower on the neck. Honestly it works fine and has never slowed me down. Brian Bromberg even occasionally drops into doublebass thumb position once he is past the octave/12th fret.

A short clip on Geddy Lee soloing. I don't see him using 4th finger here. He seems OK without it.


Here is bromberg un-apologetically mixing 'regular' fingerings with thumb position. Again, total deviation from "standard" fingering.


I guess my point is that I don't see where it has to be a religion to play one way or the other. For upright players we are happy (and quite nimble btw) using Simandl fingerings similar to what Geddy lee and Brian Bromberg do in the above videos, although I can see how migrating from guitar might make you want to stay with what you know throughout the entire neck. One might argue that you can catch more without shifting using 1-2-3-4 fingerings. THat may be but I have never run into anything I can't handle using fingerings like what you see in the videos here.

Not trashing any particular technique, just advocating for a more flexible approach since that approach obviously works as well.

Yeah - what does Geddy Lee know about bass playing?
Or Chris Squire, for that matter...???

 

[OldNARDGuy]

Interesting thread. Something I haven't noticed though, is how a good teacher (IMHO) is able and willing to make allowances for the physical attributes and limitations of the student. Mind you, I'm not criticizing the OP's instructor, I cannot because I'm not there. Just making a general comment. I will say that approach has been brought home to me in years of martial arts instruction, observing fellow teachers who insist on canonically correct form vs those who seek to understand the kinematics of the individual student. In my experience the second group has more success in training capable martial artists.