Using the MXR M80 DI+ for recording

[tothemax]

I recently acquired an M-8, mostly to have a better sound to send to the mix (and possibly an amp-less option). It took a while to get my live sound dialed in to what I was looking for, now that I have it I did some test recording yesterday. What I found was that the DI signal from the M-8 was relatively low for recording (using a passive P bass). I switched over to a Sidekick passive DI (in line with my amp), and while the signal was better it was still pretty low output. My board is a Tascam Model 16, and the pre's are normally pretty good. I eventually switched over to an old Behringer Ultra DI (DI20 active) and got a pretty decent signal set at 0 dB. Prior to this I had been using the built in DI from my BA210 amp, it was a strong signal but was linked to the amp controls which could be a little quirky. As I'm typing, there is the option to use the 10 band EQ on the pedal board to boost the signal to the M-8.

Late bloomer here with getting a tight bass tone, but now that there is one it would be nice to carry it over for recording.

Cheers

FYI: Very appreciative on the feedback on the DAW volume issue. Something that should be in the Cakewalk DAW documentation but isn't, or is buried somewhere (setting the computer volume at 100%). Quite the difference.

 

[silky smoove]

Just to confirm, when you say the M-8 DI+, are you referring to the M80 or a different model?

 

[tothemax]

My bad, that's the one (updated the thread)

MXR M80 Bass DI+

 

[silky smoove]

When you say relatively low level, what does that mean? What is the resultant peak meter level in your DAW expressed as negative dbfs values?

 

[tothemax]

By low level I'm saying to get a -10 to -8 dB signal in the DAW the gain on the USB Interface / mixer has to be set at about +40 dB (about 4:00 on a control that only goes to ~5:30). The Tascam Pre's go from -10 to +50 dB which should be plenty of boost. The XLR cable does go through a snake into a splitter before going to the mixer (Behringer MS8000). I wouldn't think that would affect it that much. Going direct would be an easy test... might have to try that.

 

[Chris Chong]

The amp DI out likely has a line level output, while your pedal DI has a mic level output.

Mic level output, to my understanding is generally preferred by sound engineers.

When I got myself a Rupert neve DI, I was shock to find the levels so low compared to my sansamp. But any mid tier audio interface or mixer would have enough gain to bring the signal up to recording level without clipping.

Generally, you wouldn’t need to hit 0 dbFS for recording.

 

[tothemax]

The Behringer Ultra DI has an attenuator built into it, you can set it to 0, -20, or -40dB. I was getting a pretty good signal with it set at 0.

 

[Chris Chong]

You can push the gain on your audio interface as long as it does not clip.

Then use any compressor or amp plugin in DAW to bring up the level.

 

[silky smoove]

By low level I'm saying to get a -10 to -8 dB signal in the DAW

That's a perfectly suitable level for use in a DAW. My preferred input setting level at input to the DAW is -12dbfs. Remember that when working in 24 bits you have a theoretical headroom above the noise floor of 144db. Even at 16 bits you've got 96db to work with.

 

[silky smoove]

You can push the gain on your audio interface as long as it does not clip.

I'd add that while this is technically true, some preamps begin to exhibit self-noise when set near the top of their operating range, which can be a sonic negative to the recorded signal. With a high-quality preamp I would agree that it can likely be turned all the way up without consequence as long it's not clipping. To your point though, once the signal is in the DAW, even if it's low you can continue to add gain digitally through any number of methods, and as long as you're not exceeding 0dbfs, including any intersample overs, then you're fine.

 

[tothemax]

I just did a quick test and boosted the output on the EQ into the M80 about +4 and I'm getting a decent recording level. The Pre gain is set at about 2:00 (about +15). No clipping and sounds good. Everything set at unity on the DAW... I am going to look around for a good VU meter plugin, that might be a little more accurate.

All good and appreciate the mind bank here on TB...

 

[silky smoove]

I am going to look around for a good VU meter plugin, that might be a little more accurate.

It won't be any more accurate than the peak meter in your DAW, which is already sample-accurate. I'm not familiar with your DAW, but I see a value of -7.6 and a meter sitting around -18. I'm assuming -7.6 is the highest peak it's seen since the last playhead reset, and -18 is the signal level at the time when you took the screenshot. I'm also assuming those are both dbfs measurements. Is that all correct? If so you're probably fine, but don't get fooled into thinking you necessarily need to push levels above -12dbfs. Heck, even many pros with names on records you've heard commercially record at -18dbfs.

 

[tothemax]

SS,
All correct, the DAW is the latest release of Cakewalk Sonar by Band Lab, I didn't expand the track beyond what was needed for a quick test. With the output boost from the EQ, the M80 clean channel volume was at about noon, and my bass volume under 3/4... signal was nice and clean, and I would hope with sufficient headroom.

Cheers