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v-drums for finished album vs. live drums

billoetjen

billoetjen

May 3, 2005
1,291
21
Burlington, Vermont vt
#1
Hi Folks,

I'm working with a friend on an album. It's not his first by any means, so it's really not a noob question.

He's debating whether to mic live drums or use v-drums for his finished drum tracks. He's used v drums before for scratch tracks, but never attempted to use them for finished product.
The genre is straight-up rock and roll.

Anybody here have an opinion on the use of v-drums for this application?

Thanks,

Bill
 
#2
Vdrums are fine. They have multiple outputs just like you'd use multiple mics on real drums.
Put each output to it's own track, and you can remix.
You can also record the midi to a separate track in case you want to re-drum later.

Vdrums are physical models, they are not samples. Drums are easy.
Cymbals are tough. Take a listen in the mix and v-drums sound great.
But you can always change them later.

Or if you have some old tracks that you want to replace the drums on check out this deal!
Link Removed

For any instrument, that also has midi out - record a separate midi track - it will make it easy to try different instruments in the mixdown.
 
#4
if you do go v-drums, it would be nice to capture the MIDI out so you have the option of using it to re-trigger real acoustic kit samples (or the vdrum module) and/or place hits on various parts of the beat, adjust velocity, etc...
 
#6
I wouldn't because the cymbals are so bad but don't rule out hybrid. One of the best sounding kits I've ever heard was a hybrid (though being played by Chad Wackerman would make any kit sound better!).

 
#7
It really boils down to
1 what sounds you want to make and
2 what your studio skills are with drums.

If you want to make some funky sounds the samples always sound generic and sound too 'produced.'
On the other had if you want to sound produced as in 'per-dooooced' ... and you have have not the kit or the chops to pull off those sounds or recording techniques, then sampled drums sound great.
 
#8
My church used v-drums for a very long time, and we finally got a real kit. After years of messing around with it, we couldn't get a snare or cymbal sound that didn't sound artificial. To spend the time it would take to get everything dial in on v-drums, it might just be quicker and cause less headaches to record live drums.
 
#10
MNAirHead said:
depends on which brain your kit has.. seriously they're good enough that you cant tell.

DEFINATELY capture the midi.
Click to expand...

BIG +1 on MIDI capture while you capture the audio, too.

Then, you've got all kinds of virtual options: BFD, DFH, Native Instruments Battery (I have it and like it), many others. Just go on Sweetwater or Musicians Fiend and have at it.

So many people are doing drum replacement for serious, high-$$ projects. Why not capture the MIDI on your drummer's performance, and not have to use Drumagog? It's a great option.

I'd definitely go with the V-kit and MIDI, then replace with another drum virtual instrument in post. Then, you can get all the kit pieces sounding just like you want, within reason. You can even mix pieces (two snares for the price of one) for more options.

You might like the Roland audio out of the box; but I'd have a VI in your budget (~$200-300) if I were you.
 
#11
IME the cymbals are really the hard part.
That's where you can recognize samples/emulations from real thing.

For all the rest , there gazilllion of very good samples library.
 
#13
I own a TD-6v and would never use the head unit for getting a really high end drum sound. I run the midi into my Macbook pro and trigger XLN Audio's Addictive Drums which sounds amazing. Sampled DW, Sonor and Tama kits with Sabian and Paiste cymbals to choose from. There are more expensive and more complicated drum setups out there but Addictive was crazy easy to get going. There are plenty of presets available for free too which is nice if you don't want to spend endless amounts of time making a drum mix. Just find one you like and tweak as desired. It can also be split to multiple tracks if you want. Great program!

Edit: This is also a very Vdrum friendly program. They have presets for the different models of Vdrums so all you have to do is select the correct one and a preprogrammed midi map is loaded for that kit. It also has a learn function to remap any pieces you want assigned differently.
 
#16
It all depends on the music. Really.

Have you ever gigged with elecronic? Wrote the music with the drummer playing electronic drums? If you're playing traditional jazz/bluegrass/organic mellow music, I'd steer clear. Rock & roll? You're likely going to be fine.
 
#17
I'm not into it. Drums are NOT easy to model, not all the variations anyway. Not being able to tune them properly etc is a killer but something for only really more high-end sessions.

More fundamental is having no room mics or overheads. Barely any drums sounds are gotten entirely from the close mics, the close mics almost always just add definition to the OH's to make a full drum sound. You can hide it to a certain degree, and some genres don't suffer from it too much, but for a normal, full drum sound vdrums do not cut it, not even close. Even for rock and roll, while a lot of the sound is close mics the real big rock and roll sounds come from the room.
 

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