V/V/T = Why?

[IanA]

VVT sucks imho, I prefer VBT by a long way!
On stage VBT feels way easier

 

[khutch]

I can't recall too many people here on TB converting to the Les Paul circuit either! Bass players and guitar players just don't seem to want the same thing and line6man's comment about how guitarists play probably explains most of that. On the other hand if you select both pickups then the LP circuit is a lot like the VTVT circuit in the original JB but the volume pots aren't wired backwards so if you turn one down you turn both down to an extent and if you turn one all the way down you kill the signal almost entirely. I can see why the LP circuit is not popular with bassists! Personally I think both VVT and VBT are poorly served by audio taper pots, better served by linear, and best served by reverse audio taper pots -- assuming you are after a smooth blend function. But reverse audio taper pots are uncommon and I believe most blend controls go with linear tapers. Ungrounded blend pots give up some ultimate isolation (unless you do Walterw's unloaded blend mod) but tend to work a bit smoother and are somewhat popular here on TB.

VVT and VBT both have their advocates. I need to kill my bass signal completely and frequently because I play in a church band and there are times when silence is golden! So I prefer VBT because the volume and blend are independent.

 

[El Güero]

Once you're using both pickups at once, the caps are introduced from both sides.
In other words, both tone controls would be controlling the tone for both pickups, and not individually.

That's true, and why a Strat works using the same cap for both tone controls.

 

[line6man]

Yeah it's just an opinion, and look how many 2-pickup guitars and basses are made that way. I can think of no guitars with the JB control layout.

That is because guitarists need to be able to switch between their pickups very quickly. There is a fundamental difference in the way that pickups are used on guitars.

 

[acebase62]

The passive Fender Jazz Bass Special (PJ) of the the 1980s came stock with V-V-T and a 3 way switch.

Pretty versatile setup to allow use of both pickups with individual volume controls, or isolate either pickup.

The volume pots on my 1985 were 500k, and the tone control was a "small" Fender TBX.

 

[Cowboy in Latvia]

I gotta say, I prefer a V/V/T to a volume/balance setup any day of the week. I can get a the full 'hot' sound of either pickup and add the other one as needed for a bit of color. Sure, you don't always hear much until the second pickup is past halfway but man, the tone palate is endless. Go with what you like but for me, it's V/V/T for life (at least for now).

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I've got a V/V/T that I was going to convert to V/B/T, but I can't find a no-load blend pot with a solid shaft.

 

[Rocktometrist]

VBT all the way for me. Making volume adjustments on the fly is a PITA with VVT if you're running both pickups, since adjusting volume also adjusts tone. To me, the advantage of fine-tuning volume with one knob without effecting pickup blend makes VBT the clear choice--it's way more practical in a live situation.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Regarding audio(log) vs linear taper pots:

-Tone Pot- Always use audio taper. If you use linear taper, you get no change until the last 10% of the rotation then the change is too abrupt.

-Vol Pot- Either works, however, most basses ship with audio taper vol pots. A subtle rotation of going from full to 3/4 full, (or fully dimed down to 7), drops the value from 250 to 125 ohms. For some, that subtle of a rotation change can make it difficult to dial in exactly what they want. For others, that subtle bump is all they want to deal with, and it works fine. If you want a longer sweep to really fine tune things, use a linear taper vol pot. That way, rotating from full to 1/2 full (or fully dimed down to 5) really is a 50% drop in output. You get a wider sweep to really fine tune and dial in exactly what you like.

 

[JustForSport]

how does one keep a 100% level on one pickup and roll in varying percentages of the other in a VBT setup?

MN taper blend pot is either pickup full on at either end of the rotation and both full on at center, then rolling either way rolls one of the pickups back:

https://www.bourns.com/data/global/pdfs/Bourns_PDB182_Blend-Balance_Guitar_Pots_AppNote.pdf

 

[RoadRanger]

As I don't have any use for the "J" being louder than the "P" on my PJ's I rewire them as Master/Bridge/Tone. You can do this without adding anything new.

This has a few advantages:
It's a "real" P circuit so the tone doesn't change as you turn down the Master volume.
You can use the Master to mute without screwing up your pickup balance - or you can do a bit of tremolo .
If you have the "J" blended in and want to change the overall volume you don't need to fiddle with two knobs.

Disadvantages:
The "J" can never be louder than the "P".

 

[line6man]

As I don't have any use for the "J" being louder than the "P" on my PJ's I rewire them as Master/Bridge/Tone. You can do this without adding anything new.

This has a few advantages:
It's a "real" P circuit so the tone doesn't change as you turn down the Master volume.
You can use the Master to mute without screwing up your pickup balance - or you can do a bit of tremolo .
If you have the "J" blended in and want to change the overall volume you don't need to fiddle with two knobs.

Disadvantages:
The "J" can never be louder than the "P".

If you wanted to, you could throw in a switch to swap the pickups around, so that either pickup could be full on, while the opposite pickup feeds the secondary volume pot.

 

[RoadRanger]

If you wanted to, you could throw in a switch to swap the pickups around, so that either pickup could be full on, while the opposite pickup feeds the secondary volume pot.

Yep .

 

[PortlandBass77]

You need to set the height of the PUs. My Jazzzzzz bass had this problem when I first got it, I set the PU height and now tons of tonal options.

 

[El Güero]

I can't recall too many people here on TB converting to the Les Paul circuit either!

That's because it probably requires routing and a complete rewiring, making it too much of a PITA.

And from the other side of the coin, how many 4001 Rics or any other basses which came with a LP circuit have you seen "upgraded" to VVT? Zero?

VVT is effective with minimal parts/labor, but I still say the "why" part of "why VVT" is Leo was too cheap to use 3-way switches.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

You're assuming a 3-way switch would cost him more than another potentiometer. I would think the switch would be cheaper.

 

[El Güero]

You're assuming a 3-way switch would cost him more than another potentiometer. I would think the switch would be cheaper.

VVT takes three pots and three knobs.

LP takes four pots, four knobs, and a 3-way switch.

The switches run about $20 nowadays. Plus there's the extra routing, cap, and wiring. A lot more extra expense than just the price of the switch.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

3 Way Guitar Off on Toggle Switch with Knob Guitar Parts for Les Paul Gold | eBay

I was thinking along the lines of VT3, not full LP.

As mentioned, a bass player isn't normally going to be switching around like a lead guitarist. We are the rhythm section after all.

 

[El Güero]

I'm not disputing that at all. I'm saying that if there's a "why?" and it involves Leo Fender, money IS a consideration.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Everybody was tight back then, from his era. I wish the soldering to the back of the pots thing had never become a thing.