Virtual Band Practice ?

[pink-panda]

Real-time virtual band practice might be tough, but maybe consider building tracks in one DAW, sharing files in a drive or Dropbox (if you folks can agree on one cloud service )

Also, maybe an online DAW can be a solution, like Soundation or (I think) Bandlab

 

[mrcbass]

I did some exploration my self this weekend. Tried two free online products - or should I say tried to try two products.

I tried to use JamKazam. I couldn't even get an account to set up so that I could login to any of the sessions - so have no idea if there any value to it. I'm trying to cut them some slack because I imagine they are getting slammed tight now, but they need to manage the user experience - tell me you're buried and things are not working right so I don't waste my time.

The other one I tired was Jamrr. It's audio only, but I did manage to get it working well enough to jam with someone claiming to be in Germany. I'm in California. It was just him jamming over the same blues loop, so it got pretty boring pretty quickly, but I never felt a problem with latency. It took me while to get the audio set up properly on my PC so that the Jamrr software would recognize my recording I/O. From what I could tell, most everybody there was doing what I was doing - jumping in and out of public sessions just exploring. There wasn't much else going on. Another bass player kept jumping in and stepping on me - I later figured out that I could have muted his/her signal, so in theory, can have multiples of the same instrument participating and have control of who you listen to.

Unfortunately, not everyone in my band has the equipment to even make a go of it - or maybe just not the motivation to try. I'm not sure it would have worked - getting a decent mix would have been a severe headache, but it sure would have been nice to try.

Since I was hoping to use it for my band, I really wasn't too concerned about public jams. Could be a cool source for random jamming or meeting new jam partners if it catches on. This situation is a free trial thing with an annual subscription that will kick in after a few months, so be careful about getting hooked if this is something you choose to explore and don't go in for subscription services.

 

[pink-panda]

I did some research too, over the past 4 weeks about these software types. I came to the conclusion that everyone needs fast internet, an audio interface (lower latency and noise issues), preferably wired internet, and the ultimate way is a private server.

Since there are not a lot of people that want to put so much effort into making these programs work, I believe that other rehearsal exercises are the answer, at least for my band.

I made some videos on the subject, because it intrigues me why most stuff is outdated, and due to quarantine I need a creative outlet.

If you're interested, here are links:
link: 9 Tips for Band Practice During the Corona Crisis
basically, I believe there's four things a band can do together:
1. Hang out without playing
2. Songwriting excercises
3. Remote recording your music, layer per layer
4. Try one of the aforementioned softwares.

I guess if Jammr works for you, it will work for some other people as well. I had some tough luck with Jamkazam, Jamulus and Ninjam, which I reviewed in another video:
link: Online band practice in 2020.. does Zoom work? (sorry for the clickbait titles)

If anyone is looking for a list of real-time rehearsal software, here's what I found:

• Jamkazam
• Jamulus
• Ninjam
• Jammr
• Sofasession (out of date website)
• Jamlink (some weird interface needed)

 

[mrcbass]

I did some research too, over the past 4 weeks about these software types. I came to the conclusion that everyone needs fast internet, an audio interface (lower latency and noise issues), preferably wired internet, and the ultimate way is a private server.

Since there are not a lot of people that want to put so much effort into making these programs work, I believe that other rehearsal exercises are the answer, at least for my band.

I made some videos on the subject, because it intrigues me why most stuff is outdated, and due to quarantine I need a creative outlet.

If you're interested, here are links:
link: 9 Tips for Band Practice During the Corona Crisis
basically, I believe there's four things a band can do together:
1. Hang out without playing
2. Songwriting excercises
3. Remote recording your music, layer per layer
4. Try one of the aforementioned softwares.

I guess if Jammr works for you, it will work for some other people as well. I had some tough luck with Jamkazam, Jamulus and Ninjam, which I reviewed in another video:
link: Online band practice in 2020.. does Zoom work? (sorry for the clickbait titles)

If anyone is looking for a list of real-time rehearsal software, here's what I found:

• Jamkazam
• Jamulus
• Ninjam
• Jammr
• Sofasession (out of date website)
• Jamlink (some weird interface needed)

I watched your "Online band Practice..." video - well presented and something we've probably all been looking for. Unfortunate results, but about what I expected. Thanks

I keep wondering what those groups ARE using to produce the videos I'm seeing on Facebook. It must be people with proper high end interfaces and probably private servers.

 

[pink-panda]

Don't know which video's you mean, but if it is wat I think it is, then it's all separately recorded in a DAW.

One person sends a sketch track to everyone. All players record their own takes with a camera and send them back. Next, put all audio tracks together, mix them and post them on FB/YT/IG

 

[mrcbass]

Don't know which video's you mean, but if it is wat I think it is, then it's all separately recorded in a DAW.

One person sends a sketch track to everyone. All players record their own takes with a camera and send them back. Next, put all audio tracks together, mix them and post them on FB/YT/IG

Can never find anything again on FB, but seen several "Brady Bunch" looking vids with people performing. As difficult as it seems to be, you're probably right.

 

[ak56]

Don't know which video's you mean, but if it is wat I think it is, then it's all separately recorded in a DAW.

One person sends a sketch track to everyone. All players record their own takes with a camera and send them back. Next, put all audio tracks together, mix them and post them on FB/YT/IG

Can never find anything again on FB, but seen several "Brady Bunch" looking vids with people performing. As difficult as it seems to be, you're probably right.

That's exactly what those Virtual Choir "Brady Bunch" videos are. The choir I'm in is preparing to do one of those shortly.

 

[mrcbass]

That's exactly what those Virtual Choir "Brady Bunch" videos are. The choir I'm in is preparing to do one of those shortly.

Wow, that must be a nightmare video production getting all those videos synced up. Doing 4 or 5 would be brutal, but I've seen them with close to 100 people. Yikes!

 

[ak56]

Wow, that must be a nightmare video production getting all those videos synced up. Doing 4 or 5 would be brutal, but I've seen them with close to 100 people. Yikes!

I've seen some with upwards of 5000 people! We're only about 40, but I'm glad I'm not doing the editing.

 

[overit]

I’m in Las Vegas and have had success with Jamkazam with my band mates that live within 10 miles of each other.

I’ve also joined a couple random sessions and jammed a couple slow jazz tunes with a keyboardist in Italy with a couple other players popping in. Too fast of a tune and latency was an issue. Still, we could jam and hold a conversation which was pretty cool.

Nothing fancy on my end - a MacBook Air from 2013 with a USB adapter hub to plug an Ethernet cable into, a Zoom U-24 interface, my bass plugged into a Zoom B1 Four into input 1, an SM58 into input 2.

 

[VerryBerry]

Real-time virtual band practice might be tough, but maybe consider building tracks in one DAW, sharing files in a drive or Dropbox (if you folks can agree on one cloud service )

Also, maybe an online DAW can be a solution, like Soundation or (I think) Bandlab

I'd rather have the simultaneous experience, but I will check out Soundation and Bandlab anyway. Still haven't given up on getting the virtual practice idea yet, but haven't had time to go further.
Thanks!

 

[pink-panda]

I’m in Las Vegas and have had success with Jamkazam with my band mates that live within 10 miles of each other.

I’ve also joined a couple random sessions and jammed a couple slow jazz tunes with a keyboardist in Italy with a couple other players popping in. Too fast of a tune and latency was an issue. Still, we could jam and hold a conversation which was pretty cool.

Nothing fancy on my end - a MacBook Air from 2013 with a USB adapter hub to plug an Ethernet cable into, a Zoom U-24 interface, my bass plugged into a Zoom B1 Four into input 1, an SM58 into input 2.

Glad to hear! I'm really curious how the Jamkazam servers would hold up if more bands would do this.

Did you have any issues with latency, or audio cutting away? Did anyone of you try using plugins for vocal enhancement?

 

[Bassamatic]

I don't understand why ALL these programs appeared about 5 years ago, and fizzled! The only one that seems really active is NinJam, which is now a Reaper plug-in, and you must set up a private server to get a private jam with your band mates. I don't get why all these apps fizzled! Any ideas??

The one I like the best is JamKazam, seems true peer-to-peer although it is has potential latency issues if you are too far away, but for most bands we are in the same city so no problem. Heck - we would be happy to pay $10 a month to have this ability if it was up-to-date and working properly! We'd only need to meet in person once a month or just before a gig.

Are you listening JamKazam??? Get it going again, will ya? Aim it at real bands instead of jamming with strangers!

 

[pink-panda]

Even 40$ a month would be cheaper than renting a rehearsal room in these times. If they can arrange a private server just for you, I think you have a fine business plan

 

[el murdoque]

Now if you can get over the initial latency... it will then be consistent. But you all have to be separate. You can't have anybody in the room with you.

You will have to add up the ping rate of you and the computer you're connected with, assuming both connect to a server. That is, with a very good latency at least 30ms, not counting processing. I'd say you'll have more than 50ms Latency under perfect circumstances.

 

[jwoiton]

I passed on the JamKazam link to my band. I'll report back if anything happens with it.

 

[Bassamatic]

EDIT - JamKazam replied that they are STILL HERE and still free.

I THINK JamKazam is peer-to-peer and doesn't require a dedicated server, but will check on this further. The others do need this because they process the audio delay. They will let me know.

Looking again at the JamKazam web site, it seems that they may have tried to do too much at once - likely leading to their fizzle. Rehearsing, jamming with strangers, jamming to popular songs and for classes. A Lot to bite off.

 

[m-j]

>>>Heck - we would be happy to pay $10 a month to have this ability if it was up-to-date and working properly! Aim it at real bands instead of jamming with strangers!<<<

Yup I agree - I would pay $10 a month as well if it provided JK with the ability to upgrade the servers/equipment and provide those paying subscribers with the ability to drive on the 10 lane highway rather than all of us having to drive on a two lane road which I believe is making the JK experience very inconsistent and not that great.

And set up some pricing plans for schools to offer students that are in a music class or school bands since (at least in NY) students won't be seeing the inside of their school classrooms for another month!

 

[Kevorargh]

So I finally got on to JamKazam yesterday - here's the review:

The set up I did on Wednesday, got me a 50' ethernet cable, hooked it into my computer, logged in and set about to getting things activated. There is a place where you can test my speed - except it won't let me. No servers available, it has told me for the past two days. I did get it to recognize my audio interface and get my channels set up and saved. That worked well.

Yesterday is when I first plugged in. I was able to download a track to play along to, which was pretty cool - a recording from of the JamKazam sessions. It allows you to mute tracks, so I could mute the bass and play along. Pretty cool, actually.

I then went and joined a session. From a technical perspective, I was pleasantly surprised. I could play along with other people with no noticeable latency (at one point in my set up, I received a notice that my latency was 6ms, so it does fall under the limit that others have said you needs to be able to play along with others). About 20 minutes in, I was disconnected, and could not resync with the session. I logged out, and logged back in and tried to rejoin the session. Even though it said I was not synced, other could hear and play along with me. I did one song, and left after that.

The app allows you to be able to control your own mix, and the person in charge can do a master mix. The video part works well, I was able to set up my camera, and people could see me. I haven't tried running my own session yet.

JamKazam, from a purely technical view, works. It's buggy and not perfect by any stretch, but I may have my band give it a shot.

 

[Bassamatic]

I have pushed them via email to get it rolling again - that every band needs them now. It seems that they are working on it as the copyright on the app and website are now 2020! Also - I got a message once that the are working to add server capacity. More good news.

PLEASE consider to contact them and let them know that we are willing to pay a subscription for this service. It is likely their free format with paid upgrades was instrumental in their decline. If 10% of the working bands around the world paid $10 a month they could be in fat city!!

I contacted them at [email protected]