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Vocalist Issue.....

#22
Are these people aware of how they sound? I'm aware that I'm in the "live sound" forum and I am the furthest thing from a sound guy or having competence in the sound guy's craft. Still, I have to believe that most people don't actually want to sound like crap and that at least some of them will recognize it if they honestly listen to a recording of the same. If the singer won't recognize it or absolutely refuses to try any of your suggestions, then you have a problem. If she's okay to work with otherwise and you feel you can correct for her shortcomings with a compressor/limiter or the right mic or whatever, fine. Otherwise, just like in any other 12 step program (this one for mic abuse), the first step lies in recognizing/admitting that you have a problem. That's why I suggest the recording.

Dismounting my hobby horse. Good luck.
 
#23
runmikeyrun said:
I was in a band with a singer who couldn't hit certain notes. We told him all he time and he refused to believe us. So we conspired to videotape our sets from then on, and then collectively watch them to critique ourselves. He finally realized how bad he sounded and got some singing lessons.
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There we go. At least this guy (with a little prompting) did something about it.
 
#25
It's pretty simple:
"You have a good (great?) voice but your mic technique sucks. You overdrive the mic when you belt a loud note right into it." If you want an example of someone with great mic technique, watch a Christina Aguilera performance. Regardless of what you might think of her music, she has killer pipes & excellent mic technique:
Christina Aguilera & Andrea Bocelli - YouTube
Christina Aguilera - Beautiful (Live on TODAY) - YouTube

As a side note, make HER buy the compressor if she can't/won't learn proper mic technique.
 
#27
Yeah, do a recording off the desk, the vocals will be louder than the rest anyway, set the recording level so it is nearly peaking on 'normal' vocal levels.
Play it back and say this is how we sound live, is it ok to use it for our demo?
the vocal peaks will hopefully be horribly distorted, and the rest of the band drowned out.
If she still doesn't see any thing wrong, then......
 
#29
TimmyP said:
I hate it when a singer "works" the mic according to their level. When they are loud, their tone thins out. When they back off the mic, the proximity effect drops off, and the tone gets thin. Thin + thin = a huge difference undesireable change in tone. Give me a mic eater and a good compressor any day.
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But if they're good at it and don't overdo it they're a lot faster than any soundman on a fader or any compressor can ever be. And if you're running sound from the stage without a soundman it's about the only way to get decent sound in the monitors.
 
#30
Well, it looks like we won't have to worry about this vocalist anymore. We had a gig this past Saturday and the setlist was tailored more towards 'old school' r&b, soul and funk (of which she does close to 0% anyway) and she decided that she was NOT going to be anyone's backup singer and blew off the gig. Correct! She did not show up! For the band leader, this was strike 3! By the way, the show was kickass! We didn't miss a beat!

Some issues that never bode well with me were; She rarely showed for rehearsals. She never updated her songlist and always blew off suggestions. Did not own a mic, stand or cable. Never assisted with setup or breakdown. Always arrived at gigs right at starting time or late! And she had the nerve to try and have diva tendencies! :eyebrow:
 
#31
DWBass said:
Some issues that never bode well with me were; She rarely showed for rehearsals. She never updated her songlist and always blew off suggestions. Did not own a mic, stand or cable. Never assisted with setup or breakdown. Always arrived at gigs right at starting time or late! And she had the nerve to try and have diva tendencies! :eyebrow:
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All of which constitute a sah-WING and a miss!!! What a wonderful weight loss plan your band has just experienced!

I got hooked by this thread because our front singer chicklet does the same general thing, but not quite to the degree you described here. Not looking to fire her - she's our drummer's sister - but she could deliver an exceptional performance with the addition of some good mic management.

Although I "suggested" giving the mic some space when she really let's it fly, she never got the message until we played a larger gig this summer at a venue with a healthy system and a sound dude. When he specifically told her that it was an issue, it really got her attention.

Any bands out there with this chronic problem may want to bribe a soundman at a future gig to raise a similar objection. That seems to carry the message with greater weight.
 
#35
DWBass said:
Excuse my ignorance but in what way does a condensor mic differ from dynamics?
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Put at its most very, very basic, a dynamic works like a louspeaker in reverse - i.e. a coil moving through a magnetic field, actuated via air pressure on a diapraghm, generates a signal which is then amplified - whereas a condenser works like a capacitor - as in, the capacitance of two closely spaced plates varies based on their physical distance from one another (which varies by air pressure on one of the plates) , and that varying capacitance is amplified and becomes the signal.

So it's a completely different - completely different - method of producing a signal, which therefore has different characteristics and physics.
 
#36
R. Laevinus said:
Put at its most very, very basic, a dynamic works like a louspeaker in reverse - i.e. a coil moving through a magnetic field, actuated via air pressure on a diapraghm, generates a signal which is then amplified - whereas a condenser works like a capacitor - as in, the capacitance of two closely spaced plates varies based on their physical distance from one another (which varies by air pressure on one of the plates) , and that varying capacitance is amplified and becomes the signal.

So it's a completely different - completely different - method of producing a signal, which therefore has different characteristics and physics.
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From the sensing element onward, I get the difference.

But I thought 'pattern' was from internal porting/channeling of the air conducting the vibrations to the sensing element which would be independant of the type of element. Which was why you should never cover the back of a 58's ball with your hand by gripping too far up the barrel, as it partly turns the cardioid pattern into omnidirectional. But I've been wrong before . . .
 
#38
RustyAxe said:
Hmmmm .... been a musician (multi-instruments and vocals) for all but five years of my life ... that makes 52 years of music ... and I still hate the proximity effect of dynamic mics. Give me a good stage condenser any day.
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This is a common misconception.

Proximity effect has nothing to do with the mic being a dynamic or a condenser. Proximity effect is found in directional (pressure gradient) microphones. An omnidirectional (pressure) microphone does not behave this way.

Lots of condenser microphones are directional and have proximity effect. Some dynamics are omnidirectional and do not have proximity effect.

There are both condensers and dynamics that attempt to minimize proximity effect. The RE20 is a dynamic with almost no proximity effect, the Oktava 219 is a condenser with plenty of it.
 
#39
Condensers have a wider frequency response and are generally more sensitive. They (generally) can't handle really, really loud sources like a kick or snare drum; it actually distorts the mic capsule itself. Condensers require phantom power, while dynamics do not.

As for patterns, yes, it's all to do with the porting on the mic; covering those ports can mess up the pickup pattern of the microphone. Look at the AKG blue line (CK91, 92, 93, 94); they're all similar capsules, and they all have different porting to help achieve the different patterns.
 

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