Walking bass lines, a different question.

[Malcolm35]

What this has got me thinking is, how do we know it is time to walk - or play any style of bass line. We know it and generally lots of us agree on what is the "right" line but in my case that's instinct or something. Is there some theory thing too ('cause I got no theory)?

Theory - If there is a void fill it, with what?.

Does the music need to go somewhere else. You could walk or use a vii-vi-iii-ii-V7-I turn-a-round. Which will get you where you need to go and sound the best? -- This is where theory comes into the picture. Instead of the vii-vi-iii-ii-V7-I a secondary dominant , or chromatic passing note could do it faster. But, as always, which one sounds best is the one to use.

A little theory goes a long way... But you will have to study theory so you can reach back and grab what you need.

 

[Chickenwheels]

-listen to lots and lots and lots of music, especially in the vein of what you play.
-shamelessly copy the stuff that you like/sounds good/ works.
-focus on fitting in, making the music sound/feel good, and keeping it simple.
-don’t force a musical concept onto the music too much. Go with the feel and flow of the song and other players.

I grew up playing in the church. I’d listen to the other players and lots of CCM. During services I would really focus on the what the drummer and pianist were doing. Sensitivity was the biggest skill the church taught me. Most of my feel and lines were ripped straight from songs and players I liked. Thanks Tommy Sims!

 

[Willie5String]

Theory - If there is a void fill it, with what?.

Does the music need to go somewhere else. You could walk or use a vii-vi-iii-ii-V7-I turn-a-round. Which will get you where you need to go and sound the best? -- This is where theory comes into the picture. Instead of the vii-vi-iii-ii-V7-I a secondary dominant , or chromatic passing note could do it faster. But, as always, which one sounds best is the one to use.

A little theory goes a long way... But you will have to study theory so you can reach back and grab what you need.

Malcolm, could you explain the vii-vi-iii-ii-V7-I, (I get that it’s 7m-6m-3m-2m-5dom7–tonic, but I guess I don’t know that it’s a secondary dominant and where it’s used)...thanks

 

[dreamadream99]

I understand the “How” in walking bass lines...The question I have is related to why...is there a definitive “why?”

Yes there is. To forecast the next chord change.

When you only play roots, there is no way to predict the next chord. Walking was invented to telegraph the next change by playing predictable motion toward it. This is one of the bassist’s primary roles in jazz and country—to make the coming chord obvious ahead of time to the other players who may not know the song, or solo by ear alone.

When playing roots only, no one is aware of a chord change till the beat it occurs. But bassists have the unique opportunity to sonically divulge the upcoming change, before it occurs, by using deliberate and predictable lead-ups and lead-downs in the prior measure, that makes the destination obvious to the listener.

 

[dreamadream99]

Is it the drummer and their rhythms? Is it some other component of the song? Maybe “feel” is the best answer

Walking is the accepted way to forecast the next chord in jazz and country.

If you need to forecast the next chord in other genres (and that’s a big if—not all settings require progression telepathy), you’ll have to find a way to do it that fits the style of that genre.

 

[byacey]

Walking is the accepted way to forecast the next chord in jazz and country.

If you need to forecast the next chord in other genres (and that’s a big if—not all settings require progression telepathy), you’ll have to find a way to do it that fits the style of that genre.

That leading note before the next bar is all so important.

It drives me nuts when music sits static on the same chord for more than two or three bars.

 

[Wasnex]

That leading note before the next bar is all so important.

It drives me nuts when music sits static on the same chord for more than two or three bars.

Sure, a tastefully placed leading tone can be nice, but IMHO you don't want to use a chromatic approach on every chord change.

Here's the definition of I am using: chromatic approach, a chromatic tone approaches the target note (root, 3rd, or 5th of the triad) from either a half step above or below

From: [Bob magnusson] the_art_of_walking_bass_a_method_(book_za.org)

Some tunes do get boring fast if the chords remain static. But some tunes can be enjoyable.

 

[Malcolm35]

Malcolm, could you explain the vii-vi-iii-ii-V7-I, (I get that it’s 7m-6m-3m-2m-5dom7–tonic, but I guess I don’t know that it’s a secondary dominant and where it’s used)...thanks

The chord progression vii-vi-iii-ii-V7-I is a basic turn-a-round progression. The following goes into detail how it works. A secondary dominant is another thing, not to be confused with a turn-a-round.

Certain chords like to move to specific chords, for example:

• The I chord is the tonal center of the progression and as such can move to any other chord in the progression and will sound "good".
• The ii chord is a sub-dominant chord and wants to move to a dominant chord.
• The iii chord is the center chord and likes to move somewhere, it will normally drag the vi chord with it.
• The IV chord, like the ii chord is also a sub-dominant chord and likes to move to a dominant chord. As they like the same thing they often sub for each other.
• The V chord is the dominant chord and wants to move to the I tonic chord right now.
• The vi chord wants to move to a sub-dominant chord. The ii or IV.
• The vii chord is also a dominant chord and wants to resolve to the I tonic chord, however, is in no hurry to do so. Because of this we often use the vii chord as the lead chord in a turn-a-round progression, or lead somewhere chord.

So in a vii-vi-iii-ii-V7-I turn-round progression starting with the vii chord and then moving back to the I chord it is moving back to the tonic chord in the way chords like to move, i.e. it sounds good.

A secondary dominant chord (or note) would be the V of the next chord. As such it being the V of the next chord it wants to pull you to -- the next chord. A bass line having the secondary dominant note in it may look like this:

R-3-5-X. With X being the Fifth note of the up coming chord. It being the last note you sounded it wants to move to the I or root of the next chord.

Now all that being said I seldom use secondary dominants. Why? A passing note or chromatic lead note does the same thing and I don't have to think what is the V of the up coming chord.

Happy trails.

 

[Papageno]

The chord progression vii-vi-iii-ii-V7-I is a basic turn-a-round progression.

Do you really mean "vii-vi-iii-ii-V7-I" or is this a typo?
To me the basic cycle progression (which is the basis for turnarounds) is "vii-iii-vi-ii-V7-I" (moving up a fourth between successive chords).

 

[Malcolm35]

It was a typo or senior moment.
iii-vi-ii-V7-I is correct. iii drag vi with it.

 

[MVE]

What this has got me thinking is, how do we know it is time to walk - or play any style of bass line. We know it and generally lots of us agree on what is the "right" line but in my case that's instinct or something. Is there some theory thing too ('cause I got no theory)?

How does a great chef know when its time to sprinkle in a bit more salt?
Taste!

 

[Groove Master]

May be you have to make it bounce more regardless the note's choice. It might rely more on how you play the notes.