WARNING: Jon Letts/Letts Basses

[Lugan]

If you've been alive for a long time and circulating in society, you've surely seen this archetype of a person. Off the top of my head, I can recall four strikingly similar individuals whose ripped off customers have posted about amazingly similar patterns of shady behavior that amounts to stealing in the end (a custom bicycle wheel builder, a custom bicycle brakes maker, and two custom fly fishing rod makers). It's almost like there is a rare but prevalent genetic malfunction that causes a few promising artists/craftspeople to be a combination of shady, lazy and irresponsible, and then string things out in communications in incredibly similar ways. They all have a story, and all the stories are so similar! The lesson for us as customers writes itself. I also feel a little bad for the vast majority of good artists/craftspeople who have to adjust their business policies because of a few bad apples.

 

[PennyroyalWe]

I learned from TB long ago, never buy a custom order boutique bass from a small shop. Even the fender custom shop can’t be trusted.

 

[EddieG]

a lot of words. missing is the part where you will refund his money.

it's not that myself or anyone else here is lacking sympathy from one human being to another. I wish you the best.

but, you took money and did not deliver. it is very obvious that ed is credible based on his manner of speaking, receipts, etc.

I cannot express how much I wish you, personally, well. I sincerely hope wonderful things come your way, orders get placed, work picks up, and it all works out for you and your customers.

but taking someones money and not delivering is completely unacceptable. i'm so uninterested in your stories, excuses, theories, hypothetical 'next bass' for your former customer, whatever else you may come up with.

anything other than proof of payment to ed is pointless to post here.

It would speak volumes about your character if you did make it right, publicly, here.

it would also say quite a bit to see you babble with more stories about your circumstances, go silent, or anything else really.

pay up man. this gentleman was more than reasonable with you. he's posting it here many years later because you let it go on for this many years.

Thanks for your support there, groooooove.

Inversely to what I've said about his behaviour, I actually think he's a really promising and talented luthier. As I said earlier in the thread, as part of "working off" some of the debt, he built me a bass neck for one of my "4 converted to 5" basses I made (as per some inspiration from posts on TB, I might add), to the specs I requested, and it's great. It's the neck on my main bass and I'd be pretty lost without it now.

At this juncture, I'd probably accept a similar instrument to settle matters, with perhaps a couple of additions to bring the value up to the remaining sum he owes me.

But that will never happen.

 

[Katoosie]

@EddieG
First of all, I am so sorry about all of this. You did not deserve to be treated like this.

Second, don't let people gaslight you. You are 100% in the right here. No ifs or buts about it.

Third, move on.
You put it out there, let the paperwork do its thing. Let it happen in the background. Chalk this up to learning. It's okay.

My partner got scammed for 2000 dollars at work, it's fine. It happens. You live and you learn. People will always try to take advantage of you.

Thank you for sharing with us and the community. I think this should be stickied.

 

[Shoreline Gold]

@EddieG :

I can't even imagine what you went through here, and that's even after describing it all. It boggles my mind.

I loved the part in his post about how things were getting "heated." If I may use an example from my side of the pond:

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”

― Harry S. Truman

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Sorry about this, but are you really trying to warn people when you waited ten years to warn us? Seems a little more like some closure and the only thing you can do to get back in any way. And that's fine, vent away. But is waiting ten years really a warning?

 

[EddieG]

@EddieG :

I can't even imagine what you went through here, and that's even after describing it all. It boggles my mind.

I loved the part in his post about how things were getting "heated." If I may use an example from my side of the pond:

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”

― Harry S. Truman

Shoreline, you're absolutely right!


It just speaks volumes for him to be saying "I really can't understand why Eddie was getting annoyed; it was only 8 years, hundreds of wasted hours chasing me, and almost $1300 lost, what's the big deal?!"

 

[EddieG]

Sorry about this, but are you really trying to warn people when you waited ten years to warn us? Seems a little more like some closure and the only thing you can do to get back in any way. But is waiting ten years really a warning?

Rich, it is a warning, and the reason for it was Letts's increasing social media presence and his attempts to paint himself whiter than white as some online luthier on YouTube while jettisoning his debts and people like me behind him. It is behaviour that I find disgusting, and given that he conceded earlier that everything I said was true, it's a bit strange that you don't?

As I said earlier, I've tried until very recently to keep trying to contact him, he's still subject to a court order to pay me back, and I've still been pursuing it. If he wants to settle matters, I'm happy to listen and then inform everyone if he sees it through.

But I'm not sure I should be the one in the wrong for bringing to the attention of everyone the behaviour of a luthier who is now taking steps to make himself even more visible, and manoeuvre into a position of doing it again to other people, even easier than he did to me.

 

[Obese Chess]

That makes sense - I confess I glossed over the detail where he had basically dropped off the map a few years ago and you were warning us because he had since resurfaced.

 

[moon-bass]

No disrespect intended to either of you, but I don't think this type of speculation is useful or warranted. Some people are bad at business, some people are bad with money, some people are dishonest, some people are just pricks, and many people are an unfortunate combination of two or more of those things.

Agree with this 100%. Making accusations of being a hard drug addict are very serious, especially since this wouldn't even qualify as speculation, this is more like just making things up.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Rich, it is a warning, and the reason for it was Letts's increasing social media presence and his attempts to paint himself whiter than white as some online luthier on YouTube while jettisoning his debts and people like me behind him. It is behaviour that I find disgusting, and given that he conceded earlier that everything I said was true, it's a bit strange that you don't?

As I said earlier, I've tried until very recently to keep trying to contact him, he's still subject to a court order to pay me back, and I've still been pursuing it. If he wants to settle matters, I'm happy to listen and then inform everyone if he sees it through.

But I'm not sure I should be the one in the wrong for bringing to the attention of everyone the behaviour of a luthier who is now taking steps to make himself even more visible, and manoeuvre into a position of doing it again to other people, even easier than he did to me.

I don't think you're in the wrong. Thanks for the warning.

 

[EddieG]

That makes sense - I confess I glossed over the detail where he had basically dropped off the map a few years ago and you were warning us because he had since resurfaced.

Yeah, his social media presence dropped off a cliff at one point very early on in this saga; the chronology was that I found him via a Google search, and then I think after that he started offering group deals on Basschat and stuff like that. Then when he'd taken a lot of deposits, he would shut down his website and Facebook page, and you can imagine how much of a concern that was the first time it happened! He even told me that was the reason in an email he sent.

That happened frequently, he changed email addresses regularly, from Yahoo to Hotmail to Gmail (I still have all three), and he had two or three Facebook pages in the time I dealt with him.

You might notice from the screenshots and his own response on this thread, Letts's biggest problem is he could never accept that he was in the wrong, that he was the architect of his own downfall and that the responses he was getting were of his own doing! It was always someone else's fault; it was the customer who was wrong for giving him a hard time over an unfulfilled order etc.

 

[Kmrumedy]

This should be a sticky on this forum along with the Duff, Zon, and Pratts.

 

[Jack Butler]

I mean, the builder responded on this thread, so even 10 years later, this is not after the fact. It’s still ongoing in real time today.

Sorry about this, but are you really trying to warn people when you waited ten years to warn us? Seems a little more like some closure and the only thing you can do to get back in any way. And that's fine, vent away. But is waiting ten years really a warning?

 

[iTzPrime]

My experience with Jon was very positive. Not sure why peeps use TB as a platform to bad mouth others as it keeps a lot of good builders and refinishers away from TB.

He had some pretty bad marital and family health problems that I wouldn’t wish on anyone.

Life Happens.

Why not send Jon a PM as he’s TB member.

Did you even try to read the posts?

You are very patient. There is no way I would have made it past 2015 regardless of his situation.

Agree, I would have sent him a lawyer notice late 2014

 

[iTzPrime]

Hi all. So yes. I did have many problems at the time of this build. And have been struggling financially pretty much ever since. Eddie wasn’t the only person who got stung by my unfortunate circumstances at the time. But it was limited to just a few individuals. I have tried to remedy this situation with Eddie over the years. And fully endeavour to remedy the situation as soon as possible. I did try to offer Eddie a bass a couple of years ago and he refused to let me do that and insisted Ai build a bass that he had personally designed and that just couldn’t happen at that time. In my experience these things always end pretty badly. Never the less I do owe him a bass, like I say along with a couple of others from this period when I actually made an attempt in my own life. I do still sell guitars through reverb.com but make very little. Hardly enough to survive to be honest. But I’m quite stubborn in my belief in myself as a guitar maker regardless of my business failures. I am a preferred seller on reverb and have a 5 star feedback with done pretty incredible testimonials. I had to cut contact with Eddie because it just became very heated between us. Yes, I owe him some money. Yes I am trying to overcome this situation. No, Eddie doesn’t help by spamming very post about me and my guitars on every social platform. I don’t blame Eddie for this. I fully understand his anger at what went down with his bass that did cost a small fortune to get to the point it was when everything fell apart in my life. I didn’t steal his money exactly. The money was spent on timber and unfortunately the bass just didn’t make it at the time and I’ve not been able to reconcile this matter like I really do need to. I am working on it. I still take the odd custom order on a no deposit, no commitment basis very rarely. I do need to sell guitars. They all get sold through reverb with full buyer protection. And have for several years now. There’s not a lot I can say. I’ve said things I probably shouldn’t in the heat of the moment in the past and sun very dubious about even commenting on this stuff for fear of coming across the wrong way. I’m not really that bad of a guy, I hope. All this business with Eddie, Tom and a Michael are isolated incidents from a long time ago. I really hope my business can pick up so I can focus on fixing past mistakes. I really shouldn’t do this. But then again maybe I should. I don’t know. There are quite a few guitar makers that have run into trouble financially and mentally and I’m glad that I can say that I came out of the other side with my life intact and willing to carry on doing what I feel so was born to do. Which is not to steal money but make the best guitars I can. I will never give up and I hope this will one day be behind us both. Maybe you have had problems yourself and can maybe understand a little of what I have experienced. Again, IDK. I am trying. Thanks. Jon.

Wait is this a troll post? The court literally told you, that you have to pay him back, and you did not. You stole his money. And it seems the only thing you are trying to do, is weasel your way out of payment.

 

[PhillipHolbrook]

If you think that everything I've just written is mere "badmouthing", I really don't know what to say to you.

As for sending him a PM, read above. I could also invite the other people I know of who've had money stolen by him to comment here, people who've tried the "PM" route and also been ignored.

I wish you would get other duped customers to get their experiences here! That con man should be in jail.

 

[PhillipHolbrook]

I absolutely agree.
Dealing with Letts has made me suspicious of all online dealings now. I've bought from
people on TB in the past, and did so with complete faith that it would be fine.

Now, I trust no one.

You don't need to distrust people in general, you just need to be aware and be careful. I got taken last year for a very expensive puppy that I never received, after paying in full.

I'm a retired pastor and all I'm trying to say is to not let this one crook change your attitude and feelings toward other people. God bless you!

 

[iTzPrime]

Yeah, his social media presence dropped off a cliff at one point very early on in this saga; the chronology was that I found him via a Google search, and then I think after that he started offering group deals on Basschat and stuff like that. Then when he'd taken a lot of deposits, he would shut down his website and Facebook page, and you can imagine how much of a concern that was the first time it happened! He even told me that was the reason in an email he sent. View attachment 5336511
That happened frequently, he changed email addresses regularly, from Yahoo to Hotmail to Gmail (I still have all three), and he had two or three Facebook pages in the time I dealt with him.

You might notice from the screenshots and his own response on this thread, Letts's biggest problem is he could never accept that he was in the wrong, that he was the architect of his own downfall and that the responses he was getting were of his own doing! It was always someone else's fault; it was the customer who was wrong for giving him a hard time over an unfulfilled order etc.

Three email addresses is fishy enough. Never trust a builder who doesn't have a custom domain, and where you did not personally contacted at least 3 people that recently got a build from him. I only had great experiences with Torillo Bass in Germany (I am based in Austria). Great guy, updated me every step of the way and the build was done in 6 months.

 

[EddieG]

Agree, I would have sent him a lawyer notice late 2014

Of course, you're absolutely right and I really wish I had done it that early into the proceedings. But I didn't want to introduce any bad blood into a situation I was still expecting to get a custom bass out of. The legal action I took against him was really at the point where I said "enough is enough", and I had warned him that it was going to happen. As per usual, he offered no resolution.

And in fact, he knew exactly what he was doing, because he was well practiced in this stuff. Read the sections of this email reply he sent when I was forced to send bailiffs to his address after seeing him repeatedly selling new builds online....

The facts of the matter really are that Letts knew exactly what he was doing.
From early on, quite possibly even from the start.
And just did not care in the slightest.

Now he wants to plead "persecution" because the truth has come out, and it doesn't work that way.
If he wants to offer a resolution, I'm happy to listen and consider it, but he won't.
And that's why this had to happen.