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Warwick = Soon to be Korean Made?

Ohh my lifes going pretty well, though I'm in the midst of exams at university and consequently a tad stressed and probably a little bit more prone to projection than I usually would be, thanks for your concern and insistance on continuing the psychoanalysis I was talking about. :)

Now you're the psychologist here.....tell me, in a discussion about the movement of Warwick production, why did you feel the need to, "mix it up"? Then throw down your credentials as soon as someone questioned you? Boredom? Superiority complex? Overcompensating for something else? Now since I don't have your glittering psych background, I'll leave it to you to work out what it may or may not be. If its how you get your kicks, I reckon maybe you've got a little too much of that free time you undoubtedly worked so hard to get. Ever tried golfing?
 
Dude I suck at golfing.

And my backgroung was Cardiovascular, not Psych. Although I did do rotations through psych. When your kidneys stop working correctly, you can take medicines have surgery, etc... to deal with whatever disease process is in effect.

But when the mind stops working correctly it alter's ones perceptions. It's horrible to see people suffer because they are mentally or emotionally tormented. Pain management is one thing, but when a person's brain malfunctions there is so many more issues than just the root cause of the problem. Working with the mentally ill was profoundly depressing. You don't cure that... you treat it. And I wanted to help people. Save people. It wasn't for me.

No you have a very valid point. Which is why after my initial jump in, I offered a sincere apology if I had offended anyone. I love a great debate. And not to upset people. But it's stimulating to have a feiry conversation with intelligent and passionate people and yet be able to remain above the tendency to want to roll up your sleeves and resort to a bare-knuckled brawl.

I have no issues giving someone a sincere apology if I've offended them. At the end of the day I've been very blessed. I've worked very hard, made plenty of sacrifices, but also been incredibly lucky, and very, very fortunate.

I don't get my kicks offending people or even attempted my best Jr. Freud... As I've said, it's all good fun to come in, mix it up and meet new and interesting people. If we can have a heated debate but remain civil... agree to disagree and remain passionate about that we hold dear... then I've met someone who I think is a really cool person to know.

So for every 1000 people who would write me off as a jerk I find one who looks deeper and we can have respect for one another... That's a great thing to find.

I sincerely do hope you can navigate your way through whatever stresses you are experiencing. To make choices and have everything go your way is no good. It's the bad choices we make that force us to look at ourselves and grow.

And I'm still working on it. I will continue to every day. When I get arrogant enough to think I've got it all figured out... that's when I hope the universe teaches me a great lesson and knocks me on my butt.

Lastly, you've got to be able to laugh at yourself. I mean, how ridiculous are we as a species anyway? I don't take myself that seriously, which is why I don't get offended by what people say. The only time I get upset is when I've offended someone by some careless action without the intent to do so. These moments remind me to pay closer attentiont to not myself, but others.

Many great people I've met from Ireland. And you live in the heart of a troubled land. Ironically, my mother is Catholic "O'Kane" and my father Jewish. Me? I'm just confused.

I apologize if I have offended you. I wish you only the best. But basically because you don't have a Streamer. OK. You had to see that coming. LOL. Nah. Streamer or no. It's all good.

Time to go and help a friend with a short film they are doing. 90% of the time I never ask to get paid. I feel fortunate to be able to do something I really enjoy. Now if I could only become a better player. Then I could play bass more...
 
Do you want to take this outside JPS?!

In all seriousness, apologies if I took you too seriously, probably best to move on from that. My stresses are very temporary, just standard student-in-the-midst-of-exams type stuff. In a week, when they're all finished, I'll be back to my usual happy-go-lucky self.
 
Another point though... None of the Fender knock-off companies have ever offered to pay Fender and then back out.

And I don't recall any of them changing the bridge placement and then telling Fender, "what are you talking about... this is OUR design"

And thus, the heart of the beef with WW.
Clones and knock-offs are one thing. In your face forgery, brazzen arrogance and backing out of agreements is another.

Any of you guys want to sell your Streamers? I think I'd like to get on just for the fun of it.

the arguments you're using for the fender clones just don't hold water. head stock shape has little to do with design, overall. the clones are direct ripoffs of Leo's original designs. P & J basses are considered a "standard design" or classic body shape. There are few other designs in bass history that can claim those designations. Other than T-birds & Ric, I'd say the NS is the only other one. It certainly has a long enough history to be considered a classic. and as such, it's going to have it's copies. remember, it's not Stuart's design either. It's Ned Steinberger's. The streamer is just someone else's take on the original design. I like Warwicks tweaks, and nothing feels like that old school wenge neck in my hands. winner, hands down. ymmv :bassist:
 
Do you want to take this outside JPS?!

In all seriousness, apologies if I took you too seriously, probably best to move on from that. My stresses are very temporary, just standard student-in-the-midst-of-exams type stuff. In a week, when they're all finished, I'll be back to my usual happy-go-lucky self.

No worries. It's all good. What are you studying if you don't mind me asking?
 
the arguments you're using for the fender clones just don't hold water. head stock shape has little to do with design, overall. the clones are direct ripoffs of Leo's original designs. P & J basses are considered a "standard design" or classic body shape. There are few other designs in bass history that can claim those designations. Other than T-birds & Ric, I'd say the NS is the only other one. It certainly has a long enough history to be considered a classic. and as such, it's going to have it's copies. remember, it's not Stuart's design either. It's Ned Steinberger's. The streamer is just someone else's take on the original design. I like Warwicks tweaks, and nothing feels like that old school wenge neck in my hands. winner, hands down. ymmv :bassist:

The headstock thing isn't me. That's the US Federal Courts that came up with that one. Fender doesn't seem to think it makes much sense either.

It is a tricky line to walk. And I'd agree, paying homage to a "classic design" is something different. Spector's Rex is a Thunderbird-ish looking guitar, but obviously not a direct T-Bird shape, it's the general style. But it also has what I consider classic Spector features such as no pick guards, the classic Spector headstock, the wood finishes and the Spector sound ala their tone control setups, etc...

I've stated numerous times during this thread that it's Ned's design... thus the name, "NS". Ned made the design FOR Stuart.

To me it's like walking into Yankee Stadium having never played baseball before, and knocking one out of the part on your first swing at bat. Ned was a cabinet maker. The NS was the first instrument design he ever did. I think he found his calling.

I think I've stated my argument for why a lot of the Spector players I've met get a little upset about the Streamer. Not Streamer players... not Corvettes or any other WW model.

To me one of the great American virtues is our sense of "Fair Play" The whole cheaters never win and winners never cheat thing.

And when it comes down to it... how many of you plagerized something in school? Every school I've been to it is instant grounds for dismissal.

So I think the WW/Spector rift plugs into that ingrained, cultural programming and depending on which side of the fence you stand on is how you're going to feel about it.

My last thing, playing Jr. Freud, is that we also have a culturally ingrained desposition regarding "the underdog". When Kramer went under, Stuart was back to square one. He was making basses out of a friend's garage for a while. He built the company up from nothing to something, lost it through no fault of his own, and started over. It's the American Dream.

So the issues between WW and Spector/Steinberger punch two buttons with me. My sense of Fair Play... and moreso than I would feel about a monster conglomerate like Fender or Gibson, because Spector and Ned have been and still are "the little guys" who through adversity fought to live their American Dream. And to have some foreign company who honestly is and always has been better financed take the one thing Spector really does, the one model that represents 90% of their income, and copy it, backing out of the license agreement, etc... as already has been discussed...

It's sickening. I don't know... but sincerely. What I've stated in this post is how/why I've been willing to take this argument up. If we don't stick up for the small guys, the the Walmarts of the corporate world will destroy them... and when that happens, quality and innovation die as well.

To recap: The Streamer bothers me because I feel the circumstances under which WW copied, then agreed to pay, then didn't, goes against what I feel can be considered "Fair Play". In the world of corporate profits, cheaters should never win. If more companies acted with integrity our economy wouldn't be in shambles right now.
 
Moving production overseas doesn't always mean a drop in quality. Look at our Toyota Camrys and Tundras. Still the same, solid, reliable vehicles even though they are made in the US now.

Most Toyotas for the American market are made in the US. While GM and Ford are closing down plants in the US and moving production to Canada and Mexico Toyota is building plants in the US.
 
Ive been very impressed with a lot of the korean made mid to upper end, and in a few cases even lower end, priced imports by several mfg. I wonder if the import ones will become for the european market what american brands import lines are to US etc? Or perhaps the main builders/owners of Warwick are going into semi retirement and going for high end import continuance of their stuff? I would hate to see them eliminate the bubinga, ovangkol, and wenge, wooded corvette's and thumbs.
 
I decided to pull the Ferrari out of the garage and take a photo with my WW Streamers...

NOT!

Man... that car and those Spectors look good together...

:D

Renouce thy evil ways and come over the light and you too one day may have a righteous ride. But if not... you'll still have righteous guitars. HA!

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Awesome. Master's huh? So that makes you way smarter than I am. Med school is much easier than that!

Best of luck to you. Hope exams go well and you get to rest some... and play some bass guitar (which ironically is how I like to wind-down and relax... I'm a recreational player).

I was going to go into medicine, but I just don't have the people skills for it.....I'm much better suited to the laboratory. I actually give Chemistry tuition to a few of the medical students, though obviously, their biology is vastly superior to mine.

Exams finish up, then I'm off on tour for a few weeks, so I'll get plenty of relaxing done then :D
 

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