Was this Racism or am I being paranoid?

[MJ5150]

Uh oh, MT is mixing it up with BJ. Where is Gia when we need her?

Point to Brad for calling MT a n00b. Ahahahahahahahahaaaahhh!

-Mike

 

[macaroni tony]

I didn't see this earlier and just saw that you pm'd me but I'll answer this here...

The first thing that came to mind was "Huh?".

I have no idea what you're talking about. I have no idea why you think I've taken offense at something, I already explained that my comment was a joke in that thread you mentioned. What now gives you the idea that I'm upset? I don't use smilies much anymore or get involved in back and forths with many folks here for that matter anymore, tired of the whining and the threats of being banned when I'm pretty sure I'm not the problem.

As far as you never seeing me post "as a Black man", chalk that up to your relative newness to the forum I guess. I'd be willing to bet that most of the more frequent posters in this thread alone know that I'm Black. It's not like it's something I hide. I've even been described as an angry Black man a time or two here on TB, something I find amusing.

So what exactly gave you the idea that I took offense at anything in this thread? I didn't and I'm genuinely curious what you read and how you read it.

BTW I ask people of any stripe questions when I'm wondering where they're coming from. Far too often they don't like to be questioned.

All right; guess I'm just a n00b

The short nature of your responses gave the idea that you may have taken offense. Then the fact that you responded in this thread without responding to my question made me more antsy. I like friends

 

[macaroni tony]

Uh oh, MT is mixing it up with BJ. Where is Gia when we need her?

Point to Brad for calling MT a n00b. Ahahahahahahahahaaaahhh!

-Mike

Who's Gia? Is this another n00b thing?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Who's Gia? Is this another n00b thing?

Yes.

 

[Brad Johnson]

All right; guess I'm just a n00b

The short nature of your responses gave the idea that you may have taken offense. Then the fact that you responded in this thread without responding to my question made me more antsy. I like friends

You have a ton of posts in this thread, most of which if I have to be honest I didn't read (the back and forths between you and another poster). I missed one addressed to me. Sorry.

I lean towards brevity these days, I'm just getting back into posting after being throughly turned off by some fairly recent events. In the meantime I was pretty sure I said enough to get any point(s) I was trying to make across. Like "Okay... why". Okay, I acknowledge your point. Why do you feel that way.

I'm not someone whose lines you need to read between. Not clear on something, don't imagine, just ask. And for anyone else, understand that there are some people I just leave be at this point. If I don't respond to a post and I saw it, maybe that's why.

 

[macaroni tony]

Oh, and I really did think Macaroni Tony was a guido, not black, based on his username. And before any one gets defensive, I'm of Italian heritage so I can say GUIDO!

btw

 

[macaroni tony]

You have a ton of posts in this thread, most of which if I have to be honest I didn't read (the back and forths between you and another poster).

Yeah....that's something I'm kinda gonna have to work on

 

[Brad Johnson]

Uh oh, MT is mixing it up with BJ. Where is Gia when we need her?

Point to Brad for calling MT a n00b. Ahahahahahahahahaaaahhh!

-Mike

What's up, Mike? Bet you've seen me post as a Black man. And a Venezuelan princess. And an Armenian Geophysicist. Etc.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yeah....that's something I'm kinda gonna have to work on

Not really... there's no harm in you doing what you do IMO.

 

[macaroni tony]

Not really... there's no harm in you doing what you do IMO.

Well...not until it consumes most of my work day. Which is, like, every time

 

[aborgman]

Explains it...so when I say "racially motivated," do you hear "racist?"

It would depend on what the motivation was...

If the motivation was related to believing someone is superior/inferior because of race, then yes. Otherwise, no.

Racially motivated =/= racist. Racially motivated just means that the race of the individuals played a major role in the interaction.

How often is race (a completely artificial social construct) a motivating factor absent some belief in inherent inferiority/superiority based on race?

 

[macaroni tony]

How often is race (a completely artificial social construct) a motivating factor absent some belief in inherent inferiority/superiority based on race?

It's almost always a factor without a bona fide superiority complex; example, the OP. IMO, and that of the majority here, the older couple were surprised and taken aback that there was a black person living in their neighborhood. Mainly because of the era they grew up in, and because they were set in their ways and their "own little world," but I'd hesitate to think that they truly believed, deep down inside, that "Black people are not as good as white people."

In short, many people do and say things that are motivated by race - it's just human nature, at a certain level - but only a few people truly feel in their heart of hearts that "These people are lesser beings."

 

[electracoyote]

There is one aspect of the thread that perhaps hasn't gotten enough attention. I can fully relate to IotaNet and others when they say they are tired of the frequency with which they have to endure being underestimated, discounted, devalued, etc. That requires no burden of proof. We can ALL relate to that. I get second-guessed all the time; by my wife, my kids, by fellow musicians, by my neighbors, as a consumer, there is an endless list of people in my life who, for seemingly no good reason, have to call my intelligence and integrity into question. It gets ridiculous, and it's frustrating as hell.

Unlike our black posters to this thread, I have rarely been scrutinized in a race-based way. Factor that in, it would definitely increase my irritation with people.

I can relate. Well, I'm trying anyway.

 

[electracoyote]

In short, many people do and say things that are motivated by race - it's just human nature, at a certain level - but only a few people truly feel in their heart of hearts that "These people are lesser beings."

Man, if I had thought of this, it would have saved me around 1,000 words.

 

[aborgman]

In short, many people do and say things that are motivated by race - it's just human nature, at a certain level - but only a few people truly feel in their heart of hearts that "These people are lesser beings."

I disagree.

It may be race, or class, or something else - but generally I think people do see the "other" (whether that is a different race, social class, religion) as lesser. In fact - I think it's inherent in our biology at a subconsious level.

The nice thing (and bad thing) is - the definition of what constitutes "other" is very malleable in humans.

 

[macaroni tony]

I disagree.

It may be race, or class, or something else - but generally I think people do see the "other" (whether that is a different race, social class, religion) as lesser. In fact - I think it's inherent in our biology at a subconsious level.

The nice thing (and bad thing) is - the definition of what constitutes "other" is very malleable in humans.

Fair enough

 

[malthumb]

More likely than not...paranoid? Or Racism?

I would say to OP, "Neither."

More and more, I believe one of the problems with these race threads and race discussions in general is the deterioration and distortion of the very word "racism."

I have always considered racist behavior to be blatantly bigoted and discriminatory. That's my test when someone is accused of being racist.

And when there is a doubt, or a valid alternate explanation for a person's behavior, I tend to reserve the use of the word "racism."


Again, this comes down to the eyes, inclinations, and experiences of the beholder.

However, since the audience for these discussions includes a whole lot of folks like me, who care about the issue but need to be sure exactly what's going on before we jump to a conclusion, this potential mis-use of the word "racism" is very confusing and even divisive. (Those of you who feel compelled to start these discussions should be mindful of this.)

That's why I see the older couple in OP's story as not bigotted or discriminatory (racist), but they are definitely reacting to OP from a social view that goes back about 50 years. They pre-judged the man based on a social status for the average black man of 50 years ago. They are out of touch and confused in their minds.

But in this and similar cases, without further proof, without seeing into their hearts and minds, I reserve the use of the word "racist."

Interesting how we can come to the same point along apparently different paths. In particular, the parts in bold could have leapt right off of my keyboard.

But then I also know, from my own experiences, that there are elements of the interaction that only the OP and the subject couple will ever truly understand that will impact the OP's own assessment of the character of the interaction. One of those "ya had to be there" type of things, reading body language and vocal tone as opposed to smileys and text-speak on the Internet.

 

[electracoyote]

But then I also know, from my own experiences, that there are elements of the interaction that only the OP and the subject couple will ever truly understand that will impact the OP's own assessment of the character of the interaction. One of those "ya had to be there" type of things, reading body language and vocal tone as opposed to smileys and text-speak on the Internet.

Point well-taken.