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Double Bass waxing the bass

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#41
STRONGBOW, please don't take this personally, I don't mean to sound like I'm raggin' on ya, but I have a real hard time with using any sort of wax on a bass. You say your bass sounds better after applying it, that's sorta like a clean car seems to run better. You say you haven't had a crack since you've been using the Howard's. If I wax my car with Coconut Repellant and I never have a coconut fall on it, that doesn't necessarily mean the Coconut Repellant is doing its job. A more important question might be, since you''ve been using the feed'n'wax stuff, have you ever had the varnish touched in? And if so, did the new varnish stick over the feed'n'wax?

Sorry, but I gotta believe Barry Kolstein knows his stuff. If I had to choose between following your advice and following his, my course would be clear.
 
#42
Bob Rogers said:
there is a huge amount of disagreement over what cleans and what preserves a finish as well as what protects and what contaminates an unfinished area.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to hear what people with experince in repairing basses reccomend for these jobs...
 
#43
If there was an equally good book called "understanding violin finishes" I'd be happy to cite it!

I spent quite a while trying to educate myself about finishing when I was building guitars. The Flexner book was the most useful general guide I found. that's it--it's just a comment and a recommendation
 
#45
Eric Jackson said:
STRONGBOW, please don't take this personally, I don't mean to sound like I'm raggin' on ya, but I have a real hard time with using any sort of wax on a bass. You say your bass sounds better after applying it, that's sorta like a clean car seems to run better. You say you haven't had a crack since you've been using the Howard's. If I wax my car with Coconut Repellant and I never have a coconut fall on it, that doesn't necessarily mean the Coconut Repellant is doing its job. A more important question might be, since you''ve been using the feed'n'wax stuff, have you ever had the varnish touched in? And if so, did the new varnish stick over the feed'n'wax?

Sorry, but I gotta believe Barry Kolstein knows his stuff. If I had to choose between following your advice and following his, my course would be clear.
Click to expand...


Wha???????????????????

I don't get your point except to stir up trouble...this was a suggested treatment..I'm not FLOGGING the bloody stuff!!! I just don't like my axe to look like **** and this stuff does a superior job, takes less than 1 minute to apply, lasts for months and has demonstrated zero ill-effects on either of my carved basses, visually or aurally. Period. Don't lose any sleep over it---

(FYI, are YOU one of those I----s who spent $20 grand for a $5 grand bass at Kolsteins? Hey, now...I'm not ragging on you, you dig? )
 
#46
STRONGBOW said:
Wha???????????????????

I don't get your point except to stir up trouble...this was a suggested treatment..I'm not FLOGGING the bloody stuff!!! I just don't like my axe to look like **** and this stuff does a superior job, takes less than 1 minute to apply, lasts for months and has demonstrated zero ill-effects on either of my carved basses, visually or aurally. Period. Don't lose any sleep over it---

(FYI, are YOU one of those I----s who spent $20 grand for a $5 grand bass at Kolsteins? Hey, now...I'm not ragging on you, you dig? )
Click to expand...

This is not the way we conduct ourselves here. Please try again.
 
#47
Me? Stir up trouble? Naw, there are lots of others around here who can do that without my help.
However, for the benefit of those new to the double bass, I will point out bad advice or errant information when I read it.
For example:
STRONGATTITUDE said:
...I have used a product called "Howard's Feed 'N Wax" on my double basses for something like 20 years now... This is an all-natural wood preservative and polish that keeps the instrument from drying out...
Click to expand...
Because the inside of the instrument is all bare, unfinished wood, nothing you can apply to the outside of it is going to prevent it from drying out. That's not opinion, that's fact. You need other humidification.

You never did answer my question so I'll pose it again: Have you ever had the varnish touched in on either of your basses, and if so, did the touchup adhere to the Howie's Weed 'N' Fax?

(P.S.- I've never bought a bass from Kolstein's. zZZzzzz... )
 
#48
Gee, I thought the person who started this thread wanted some recommendations or advise on how to polish his bass.....no? My mistake?

Hey...I have an idea...maybe we should define what wax is!

Several respondents recommended Butcher's brand or other hard paste waxes. Hey!! What do you know? I've tried that. It works. But its a hell of a lot of work too.

So I recommended using a combination of Bees Wax and Orange Oil, conveniently packaged by the Howard company. (As a bee keeper of over 20 years, I could collect the surplus beeswax I gather from my hives at the end of every season, add my own orange oil and make up the same recipe; its just too convenient to buy a bottle of Howards. Don't worry-- I have no commercial tie-in to that company).

What is Bees Wax, exactly?
Answer:

1. Certainly NOT artificial paste wax.

2. Surplus nectar broken down in a honey bee's stomach through enzymes and involuntarilly secreted on six "rings" that are located on the belly of a honey bee. It is quite edible to humans. (Maybe I SHOULD BE rubbing Howards' all over the inside of my instruments!)

3. The principal ingredient in ALL cold creme. In my experience, cold creme normally moistens and cleanses the skin, refreshing it, and making it more resilient and youthful in appearance.

Hmmm...I wonder....have you ever been around bees wax? worked with it? understand its properties? Gee, I work with pounds and pounds and pounds of it every year.

To answere your question: I've never owned an instrument that required re-finishing. But I have rubbed Howard's product (vigorously) down into surface scratches and have even covered that with clear coat "sealing" products. That's still on there; it turned out real well. You can't see the scratches any more. But I wrote that about 5 posts ago....It was ten times-- no 100 times faster than rubbing the oil from the meat of a walnut or some other nut into the scratches. That works too, if you've got unlimited amounts of time on your hands...

Don't be a skeptic unless you try it. OR..........HEY, DON't Try it! Remember what I said in my original posting, "to each his own."
 
#49
Oh...one more thing...those bee enzymes that I mentioned earlier that serve to convert surplus nectar into bees wax:

I don't have a clue what chemically comprises those enzymes...and YOU don't either...nobody knows. Like many things that go on inside the gut of a honey bee, its a mystery.

But since the stuff works so well in skin products, rejuvenating and cleansing, perhaps those enzymes have some mysterious penetrating quality.

Anyway, if you find out, there's a darn good job awaiting you in the Apiary Department at the University of Minnesota.

Cheerio my friend....
 
#51
Wax makes it slippery and makes it shiney, that's it. The "making it slippery" part dicks around with gluing, the main reason the topic gets a frown from some folks. The wax just wears away otherwise, nothing to be frightened of.

The whole "restores the wood" thing is hooey but I'm certainly not offended if someone believes otherwise...
 
#52
strongbow, I don't doubt that the wax makes your bass look good, and I don't doubt that you've never had a crack in your bass. I've never had a crack in my bass either, and I don't put a damn thing on it, I just wipe it down now and then.

Maybe I should tout that--a product, indifference/benign neglect, that costs absolutely nothing. But it lacks mysterious bee enzymes. on the other hand, maybe I have some mysterious enzymes. I could bottle some air...

It's just a pretty obvious fact that if you want a finish to "protect" the wood you're looking for hardness, first and foremost. And if you want it to look good if you sweat a lot or spill beer on it you want low permeability. Wax has neither of these things, bee enzymes or not. The original post was about moisture resistance, but as has been pointed out, the unfinished inside of a bass is kind of making the whole moisture resistance thing irrelevant anyway
 
#54
paganinibassist said:
Car polish, bowling alley wax, and those bee enzymes that "work so well in skin products"....on a bass.... Im scared!
Click to expand...


Paganini--

I surely do appreciate your levity on this!!! By golly, if these Canadians keep picking on me over my bees and beeswax, my next lesson is going to be about the Birds....!!!

I happen to know there are beekeepers in Canada, even though they only get a honey flow of about 12 hours. You know..they got 4 distinct seasons up there in the GREAT WHITE NORTH: 1) Nearly Winter, 2) Winter, 3) Still Winter and 4) Road Construction. So it doesn't make sense they can't get this concept.

Now, seriously, most "wax" available on the market is made from petroluem-- crude oil. Surely they should know about that in THE GREAT WHITE NORTH-- eh? Now, I sure wouldn't endorse that for use on any fine bass or string instrument!! Do you suppose that is the ONLY kind of wax they heard about way up there in the frozen tundra?

....hmmm where's my tea and smokes, eh?

There are only 3 types of "wax" from other-than-petroleum sources: 1) bees wax 2) carnuba, extracted from the leaves of carnuba palm trees and 3) wool wax-- technically, LANOLIN -- you know-- the stuff that you RUB INTO your hands and cover sores with to promote healing? (What better way to clean rosin from your bass belly than to rub in some beeswax emulsifier?)

Now, I realize they've rarely heard of skin cosmetics in the GREAT WHITE NORTH...seeing as how they spend all their time keeping their uh... their uh....themselves, uh, warm. That's because they don't spend too much time exposing their skin, eh? And besides, they don't carry cosmetics at Canadian Tire. Except Icey Hot for after the shinny match.

What was that quote from that old Charlie Chan movie? "MIND IS LIKE PARACHUTE-- ONLY WORK WHEN OPEN" Do they get TV re-runs in Saskatoon, or wherever?

Yeah, just dust her off and throw her in a corner, right next to the wood stove, eh?

....hmmm, that must be a bitch bowing Thumb Position with a Parka on....
 
#55
Am I right that you are actually suggesting that

A: beeswax has a rejuvenating quality on human skin, and that THE COSMETICS INDUSTRY proves this?

And

B: Because beeswax has this rejuvenating quality of human skin, it will have the same properties on a bass?

I think no more needs to be said
 
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