Ways to economize

[Zooberwerx]

Thanks to wage stagnation and minimum wages stuck in the 1980s, inflation, cost of living increases, taxes, and astronomical rent increases in the last 25 years by corporate property management companies and greedy private landlords who followed suit, it's nearly impossible for anyone to rent an apartment on a single income. Where I live, rents have increased over 125% in the last 20+ years. The apartment I rented in the summer of 2001 with my buddy was $690/mo, split 2 ways. Today, that same apartment rents for almost $1600/mo.

And no one will qualify on a single income for a typical median-priced home (around $500k) at present, especially without 20% to put down. The 'only use one income to apply for a loan' strategy lost relevance decades ago unfortunately. What you might get approved for would barely qualify as livable around here.

Well said and your #'s are spot-on IME. Timing is / was everything...my father used to say I could fall into a pile of **** and come out smelling like a rose. I've been in my house (Chateau d' Zoober) for 27 years and could NOT afford it if purchasing in 2026. It was a buyer's market in 1999 with favorable, aggressive re-fins available in the following years. The wise took advantage. I live in a neighborhood of 88 "like" homes and one neighbor purchased two additional when they went on the market....we call him "the Squire". The local home-flipping businesses are going under as there is nothing to buy and renovate.

Riis

 

[hrodbert696]

Thanks to wage stagnation and minimum wages stuck in the 1980s, inflation, cost of living increases, taxes, and astronomical rent increases in the last 25 years by corporate property management companies and greedy private landlords who followed suit, it's nearly impossible for anyone to rent an apartment on a single income. Where I live, rents have increased over 125% in the last 20+ years. The apartment I rented in the summer of 2001 with my buddy was $690/mo, split 2 ways. Today, that same apartment rents for almost $1600/mo.

And no one will qualify on a single income for a typical median-priced home (around $500k) at present, especially without 20% to put down. The 'only use one income to apply for a loan' strategy lost relevance decades ago unfortunately. What you might get approved for would barely qualify as livable around here.

In my case it wasn't decades ago, it was nine years ago. The housing market went way askew shortly after that, so I'm fully aware that it's not viable for most people. Also, I'm 55; my wife and I were in our mid-40s when we bought the house, not a young couple starting out. When I was out of college in the 90s, I got a 1BR apartment in Astoria (Queens) for $565/month; the same street now is renting apartments the same size for around $2600. My oldest daughter and her husband are living with us for the time being because rent on their 1BR - in New Hampshire - got raised to $1800. So I'm fully aware of how dysfunctional housing has become. Still, I've seen a lot of people buy more than they should have because the bank let them, and wind up saddled with mortgages that tie them down. The current situation seems unsustainable and I figure eventually the market needs to stabilize, and we'll see how buyers behave then.

 

[Zooberwerx]

The current situation seems unsustainable and I figure eventually the market needs to stabilize, and we'll see how buyers behave then.

Not sure what that entails but getting rates < 5.25% would be a start. This is nothing new: back in '89, I received some dope from Fauquier Co. Virginia which stated " there is no affordable housing here....work here but plan on living someplace else". Here in SE Virginia, retail sites and interests are going belly-up and, in some instances, purchased by the municipalities in the interest of demolition and redevelopment(?). Affordable housing is paramount and there's talk of "chassis" based housing which can be rapidly deployed within the context of planned neighborhoods. I'm of the impression "chassis" refers to modular / pre-fab options.

Riis

 

[fretter]

I'm wasting almost a grand a year on a small storage unit. Lots of memories but potentially with an infestation of mold and who knows what. I recently went "shopping" in it. I found a Boss RCE-10 that I thought I'd jettisoned many years ago. Also a minty mic but the stand is showing signs of corrosion.

 

[fretter]

Not sure what that entails but getting rates < 5.25% would be a start. This is nothing new: back in '89, I received some dope from Fauquier Co. Virginia which stated " there is no affordable housing here....work here but plan on living someplace else". Here in SE Virginia, retail sites and interests are going belly-up and, in some instances, purchased by the municipalities in the interest of demolition and redevelopment(?). Affordable housing is paramount and there's talk of "chassis" based housing which can be rapidly deployed within the context of planned neighborhoods. I'm of the impression "chassis" refers to modular / pre-fab options.

Riis

At these rates, I probably would buy the cheapest livable house and start building equity. Maybe paint and carpets but definitely no new bathrooms or kitchen.

 

[JazznFunk]

In my case it wasn't decades ago, it was nine years ago. The housing market went way askew shortly after that, so I'm fully aware that it's not viable for most people. Also, I'm 55; my wife and I were in our mid-40s when we bought the house, not a young couple starting out. When I was out of college in the 90s, I got a 1BR apartment in Astoria (Queens) for $565/month; the same street now is renting apartments the same size for around $2600. My oldest daughter and her husband are living with us for the time being because rent on their 1BR - in New Hampshire - got raised to $1800. So I'm fully aware of how dysfunctional housing has become. Still, I've seen a lot of people buy more than they should have because the bank let them, and wind up saddled with mortgages that tie them down. The current situation seems unsustainable and I figure eventually the market needs to stabilize, and we'll see how buyers behave then.

Yep. The housing market here started to go askew again in 2015/2016 or so as well, when we finally were able to buy our first home after renting for 14 years collectively. We were 35/36 and had worked out butts off to get to that point. Even then, the houses available on the market here were either over $1 million, or in the $200k range and needed tens of thousands of dollars more in renovations. The middle-ground, sensible 'starter homes' didn't even exist then. We could not afford to get into bidding wars with cash buyers either. The problem is that after the 2008 crash, any available homes on the market after foreclosure which were solid, safe, newer constructions were snatched up by commercial interests to then be rented out, reducing inventory for first time homebuyers in the 'starter home' range. The home we did buy was a rare new construction in a planned community, where we contracted the build price and it couldn't budge. We also are locked in at 3.5% with no points and no PMI. We get offers left and right to buy our house, but if we sold.... we couldn't afford to buy anything comparable. Unfortunately, our property tax valuations just shot up which is adding to the problem around here.

I don't see any way to 'stabilize the market' outside of builders receiving incentives/subsidies to start building entry-level homes again, common sense to start being used again in terms of economic policies, and people having confidence in their job prospects so that they commit to buying/selling. The knock-on effects of the economy and the job market being decimated by AI are not helping any of it either. People are either hanging on for dear life or staying on the sidelines.

 

[Zooberwerx]

At these rates, I probably would buy the cheapest livable house and start building equity. Maybe paint and carpets but definitely no new bathrooms or kitchen.

Actually, an additional (2nd) bathroom would be desirable. Our neighborhood ('57) is all single bathroom....I have 3. Buy in the cheapest neighborhood in a more affluent part of town for maximum bang-for-the-buck return. There's some gentrification in a nearby town (...overall, it's an armpit) but not on a large enough scale to see any significant return in our lifetimes.

Riis

 

[JazznFunk]

At these rates, I probably would buy the cheapest livable house and start building equity. Maybe paint and carpets but definitely no new bathrooms or kitchen.

That's good in theory - but if you're already stretching to afford the 'cheapest livable house' just to get in the 'game', that's how people get in to trouble. There is NO guarantee of equity in real estate - and I see a bubble coming again based on experience. 2008 taught me that. I worked in real estate advertising as a graphic designer in 2007/2008 before the crash, and the people who pressured US to buy then 'because houses always go up in value! ya gotta get in!' never felt right. No matter the market, if you can't afford it, it's never a good deal. I saw people buy and then immediately take out HELOCs to start 'improvements' back then too. That was the root of most of the problems back then with loose lending and high pressure loan tactics. Watching the world (and my job) crumble around me back then was the most sobering thing I've experienced in my professional life thus far.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

Everybody has a different view of life and what it means to be in the red. In my previous life, I had to convince people that numerous trips to Native American casinos and semi weekly Morton’s Steakhouse visits, as well as paying on 3 luxury vehicles because it was cool, were not conducive to maintaining a basic lifestyle to stay in the black

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Yes on this. My parents grew up dirt poor. Even when we were small we didn’t have much. Me & wife are better off but I have to say that I just didn’t have that knack, magic touch, or favor to make a lot of money. We have always been able to get by. Go on modest vacations, etc. But there were times I had to take money out of savings just to pay all my bills. I didn’t have a RV, condo, expensive cars. My children are much better off. I am glad. I didn’t want them to struggle like I did. Pls dont get me wrong, I tried most of my working career to advance, but there comes a time you have to be content at where you are in life. Play the cards you have been given. I just retired so I am back on a zero budget!’ Looking for another gig for $$!

 

[SteveC]

Being as debt free as possible really changed things for us. There was a span of about 3 years where our goal was to eliminate debt. Credit cards for ma and student loans for her. She had a GREAT job and made way more than me. I put all my gig money to debt. We knocked it down to our house being our only debt. That was transforming. Since then she quit that job (work/life balance and all that) and took one at 1/2 her previous salary. But as we had almost no debt, it didn’t matter. Since then we have worked very hard to not incure debt. We still travel, go to concerts, etc. We have done a few things where we used a HELOC but the interest is low and we pay it back ASAP. We own our cars and our home is nice but modest and the payment is under $999 a month.

We do almost all our own cooking and eating at home. We go out once in a while, and when we travel as we like to try new foods and places.

We don’t try to keep up with anybody. We try to be, and mostly are, happy with what we have.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Ignore him, all the TNC has gone to his brain.

Correct, and that's how I became a rocket scientist and astrophysicist. Brian May calls me for advise.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

Being as debt free as possible really changed things for us. There was a span of about 3 years where our goal was to eliminate debt. Credit cards for ma and student loans for her. She had a GREAT job and made way more than me. I put all my gig money to debt. We knocked it down to our house being our only debt. That was transforming. Since then she quit that job (work/life balance and all that) and took one at 1/2 her previous salary. But as we had almost no debt, it didn’t matter. Since then we have worked very hard to not incure debt. We still travel, go to concerts, etc. We have done a few things where we used a HELOC but the interest is low and we pay it back ASAP. We own our cars and our home is nice but modest and the payment is under $999 a month.

We do almost all our own cooking and eating at home. We go out once in a while, and when we travel as we like to try new foods and places.

We don’t try to keep up with anybody. We try to be, and mostly are, happy with what we have.

Congrats on debt free! Excluding life $@$ I have a mortgage which is less than rent including tax/ins. Wife’s car, a really ugly credit card. Fortunately wife cashed out a small 401 from previous employer employer that will more than 1/2 pay off the cc. I just retired so my budget is frozen. Look for free things to do! I live close to the beach. So that is my free thing!

 

[slobake]

This is a wise strategy. My parents also assumed the "live on one income" rule. The second income was either gravy, or the kitty for emergencies.

When my spouse and I bought our first house in Texas, more than 30 years ago, there was this mystique of going to the bank and getting a "pre approval letter" that you were supposed to show people. The banker would run all of your stats and give you this official looking document showing how much you could "afford."

Of course my spouse and I smelled BS, because we could run the same formulas ourselves, and knew it was far more than we'd ever be comfortable paying. Plus, it advertises your income to anybody who sees it. The banker comes across as this conservative authority figure, but really they're just a salseman.

So we told the banker about one of our incomes but not both, and got a pre-approval letter for the amount of house that we actually wanted to buy. We ended up in a modest ranch that lost value because the nearby air force base closed while we lived there. Had we bought a bigger house we would have lost proportionately more money.

One minor lesson here is that you don't have to be Terence Tao, but having just enough math sense to think your way through the BS and folklore surrounding finances is a money saving measure.

People involved in real estate like to make a big deal out of the tax write offs you get from paying interest on the bank. I would tell them "Okay, you give me a dollar and I will see that you get a dime back." Sure, I took the write offs when I bought my house but we paid down the principal as much as we could afford at the time. It mean scrimping and saving but it really paid off long term. As we paid down the interest more and more of our payments went to paying off the house instead of interest. We hate paying interest. Everything else including cars we pay cash for, that is why we always buy low mileage used cars instead of new.

 

[fhm555]

Like the old sayin goes "Money is tight and times are hard." Mrs. slo and I are in danger of running in the red for the first time in our marriage.. We are looiking at ways to live for less. Things like shopping at Costco and Grocery Outlet, searching the internet for the best deals and of course she is not buying any more basses or amps. We buy discount coupons for the movies, air travel and anything else we can think of. I also sign up for stores preference lists and just deal with the emails. We look closely at subscriptions we have and opt out of what we really don't need. We also do as much as we can ourselves without hiring others, and of course we make our own burritos and have eliminated tuna noodle casserole from our diet.
Not complaining, we sill live comfortable lives without financial worry but it is never a bad idea to be good stewards over what we do have. That way we have more lo help others with.
What are your ideas about living well and spening less.

I'm just spending less at the grocery store, staying home more and using that time to earn in my little building out back. So far I'm still feeding the future fund, but it gets kinda touch and go trying to maintain a regular contribution that's livable from month to month. So far our state has been lucky on utilities increases, but we are already the third highest power bill state in America so there is that.

 

[evil dewars]

Disc golf. Fun, mostly free, great exercise.

 

[fdeck]

People involved in real estate like to make a big deal out of the tax write offs you get from paying interest on the bank.

Folks of modest means (i.e., most of us) have to do the math in order to see if the tax deductions are actually beneficial. The reason is that in order to take those deductions (mortgage interest and property taxes, unless my info is out-of-date), you have to give up the standard deduction, which is $32k for married-filing-jointly.

So your interest plus taxes must be over $32k/y in order for you to benefit from the deduction, unless you have other reasons to itemize, which most of us don't.

Of course I'm not a financial advisor or accountant, so my more general advice is that people need to be comfortable doing basic financial math. The entire industry preys on the math-averse.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

Disc golf. Fun, mostly free, great exercise.

What’s funny is that I have tried and I can’t get the disc to go straight. I was raised on frisbees, I could throw one further than anybody and straight! Different beast. I finally gave up!

 

[evil dewars]

What’s funny is that I have tried and I can’t get the disc to go straight. I was raised on frisbees, I could throw one further than anybody and straight! Different beast. I finally gave up!

Gave up?!!!! Did you give up when you couldn't figure out the bass line for "Louie, Louie"?!!! Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!!!!

Hell, no! Get back out there, draw your arm straight across the chest and fly freely !!!!!

 

[SoonerBill]

Disc golf. Fun, mostly free, great exercise.

It can be.
I see guys with carts or backpacks with umpteen discs and who knows what else. Gotta be $$.
Still much better than golf. I haven't played in years. The Ping clubs I had maybe $400 in are now over 2k. Balls are $25 or more a dozen. And a hacker like I was would lose a couple per round minimum. Half a cart, green fee and a few beers is pushing $100. WAY too rich for me.

 

[evil dewars]

It can be.
I see guys with carts or backpacks with umpteen discs and who knows what else. Gotta be $$.
Still much better than golf. I haven't played in years. The Ping clubs I had maybe $400 in are now over 2k. Balls are $25 or more a dozen. And a hacker like I was would lose a couple per round minimum. Half a cart, green fee and a few beers is pushing $100. WAY too rich for me.

Oh yeah, I've seen them too. Those carts make me laugh at them and those guys in particular don't like it.

A backpack useful but i normally carry 4-5 discs and sundry items. Here in NC, the courses are overwhelmingly free to play.

You can (should?) start with one disc so $15 and, you're good to go.