Weather or Not

[ardgedee]

I worked at airports all over the world and when in Cleveland they would land & take off in 4' of snow without issue.

While returning from Aruba I landed in 1/2" of snow in Atlanta on Friday, it shut the entire city down, & didn't get out of there until Sunday evening!

Where I lived near the Great Lakes there had to be at least 11" of snowfall within 24 hours to close schools.

Atlanta gets snow so rarely that it's literally cheaper to shut the city down for a day than to budget for more snow clearing equipment, the snow will melt before you can clear all the roads anyway. Up north if you try that people will starve and die.

 

[JazznFunk]

You can handle snow, etc , to a certain point.

After that, NO gig is worth wrecking you car or truck and getting injured or worse.

This was a when you cook up a big pot of chili, gumbo, or chicken and dumplings and wait it out.

And it's not just snow: I had gigs pulled for a hurricane !!

I got flak from my former band once when we had a gig on an evening when we were in the process of getting a heavy, wet snow. Started out as a hint of freezing rain, which meant NO traction close to the road surface. Gig started at 7 across town at a spot which was up a pretty significant incline - which meant trouble getting up AND down - and by the time I tried to leave my house at 5/5:30, we already had about 4 inches of unplowed snow on the roads. My car was sliding and losing traction on the roads without even touching the brakes - just low gear and engine braking. I got as far as the on-ramp and when I tried to turn.... I couldn't. Managed to turn around safely at a church parking lot down the road and headed right back home, and my bandmates were peeved. The gig paid maybe $100. Not worth wrecking my car or the medical bills if I got in an accident, which definitely almost happened. I learned an important lesson about my bandmates and their 'values' that evening.

 

[burgerdj]

I have a gig scheduled for Saturday night about an hours drive from home. If the forecast holds (upto 20” in central Maryland!?!), I’d be driving home in heavy snow. I’m not getting in the car if I can’t get home safely - though I suspect the gig will be cancelled anyway.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Around here, along with bread and dairy, people hoard bottled water and alcohol and toilet paper.

In Virginia Beach, 3 snowflakes signal an apocalypse / end-of-times. This weekend's forecast sounds like a doozy. The tough part is coaxing the Maltese out the backdoor to take a dump.

Riis

 

[Five or Six]

What do you folks do in the midwest and northeast US to cope

We play. I have never cancelled a gig because of weather. It's Michigan, we expect the condition's. I've had club owners cancel but only a handful of times.

 

[socknroll1]

What do you folks do in the midwest and northeast US to cope?

I live and gig in upstate NY. Since you asked, the answer is, we check the weather and do nothing different, unless/until the conditions get really bad. Gigs, jobs, family and pet responsibilities, shopping, driving - we do it all the same, sometimes a bit slower, with freezing rain and snow in the air and on the ground. When it gets really bad, a gig or two may get cancelled or rescheduled, which is annoying but understandable. I've never had more than 2-3 gigs go away per winter, luckily.

Also note that we don't all drive AWD/4WD vehicles. Small cars are fine in winter conditions if you (a) have good tires and (b) know your limitations. I guess these rules apply even with the biggest, baddest truck.

I am also a hiker. Hiking in fresh snow can be beautiful, I just did it on Saturday. Driving to and from was tough.

 

[turf3]

That time of year again in N. Texas - usually happens toward the end of January/beginning of February - ICY ROADS, CANCELLED GIGS.

We're watching out for a possible Winter storm coming in late night Friday - about the time we'll be loading out. Current forecast has temps by then in the 20's (F) so the 14 overpasses I have to traverse to get home from Dallas to Fort Worth will probably be at risk.

Saturday evening's gig looks like a complete washout if the forecast sticks. So much so that I accepted a Sunday gig to make up for some lost revenue, which is also in jeopardy of cancellation if the roads don't thaw or if they re-freeze with lighter Sunday evening traffic (also a Dallas gig).

Don't you just love this time of year?

What do you folks do in the midwest and northeast US to cope?

When I lived in New England, the two things were:

Salt
Snow plows

No one who's lived his entire life in Texas, as I had, can understand how much work, and how much capital equipment, is involved in keeping the roads clear and safe to drive on.

Yankees always tell us "you Southerners don't know how to drive in snow" which might be kinda sorta true; but THEIR "knowing how to drive in snow" depends on multi-million dollar investments in plows (those big 'uns that form a phalanx down the freeway are really something to behold); multi-milion dollar investments in salt and salting apparatus, millions of dollars of investments in blowers and small plows operated by individuals under contract to towns and cities; the provision of places to put the removed snow; and the fact that actual ICE as we know it in North Texas is actually quite rare up there. So, yeah, maybe we don't know how to drive in snow, but we're not driving in "snow", we're driving on a thin layer of snow on top of an inch of wet glare ice.

Four wheel drive helps, but not as much as snow tires.

The thing is, no individual, and no municipality, in the South, is going to make Northern level investments (and no Southern taxpayers would stand still for paying for it) to cope with something that happens once or twice a year and melts in three days. When was the last time you saw a genuine snow plow in North Texas? Call up your yard man and tell him you need your driveway plowed. Yeah, right. How many tire stores in North Texas carry real genuine snow tires and a selection of rims? Do you really want to go out there and change to snow tires and back again, two times a year, just in case there's a snow even big enough to merit them? When was the last time you saw an actual snow shovel in a North Texas hardware store? Does Richardson Power Equipment stock snow blowers? Anyone here even heard of the brand "Ariens" that hasn't lived up north?

 

[Pings Bass]

I'm in Portland where an inch of snow can shut down the city. We just stay home and complain.

 

[JazznFunk]

The thing is, no individual, and no municipality, in the South, is going to make Northern level investments (and no Southern taxpayers would stand still for paying for it) to cope with something that happens once or twice a year and melts in three days.

This part right here. Our State (NC) barely wants to pay for roads to get repaired and maintained even without snow in the mix.... to say nothing of other expenditures; despite the fact that most all of the State supports funding these exact things (and more). Fun fact: we're the only State in the COUNTRY right now that has still failed to pass a current-fiscal-period budget. We're operating on a budget last approved in.... drumroll.... 2023!

 

[mdlewis]

Of course, the store shelves will be wiped clean of bread, milk, & eggs. Apparently, when it snows, everybody wants French toast.

Riis

I think this is racial memory from the Blizzard of 78. I was living in Kenmore Square in Boston at that time. There was no food in the supermarkets by the end of the week. The Red Cross ended up distributing rations from the street. Played many a gig in serious snow back in those days. A real PITA, but it looks like I’m facing a repeat of this next Saturday…in D.C of all places.

 

[JenderBazzFass]

In the upper midwest things don't close up at the first sign of snow, most of these go on as scheduled although the crowds will often be light.

 

[Bob_Ross]

Winter is a write off for outdoor gigs.

If only...

I'm scheduled to play an outdoor show 8 days from now, when temps are forecast to be in the low 50s. I know this venue has a policy that they won't even turn on the propane heaters in the audience until it gets below 50°F ...not sure if they are flexible regarding the onstage heaters...or if they even have any onstage heaters!

And then we're back at that same venue in late February, when it may well be even colder!
FML

 

[richntiff]

We played a cancer benefit gig (donated our time) on Saturday. I was hobbled by my torn up knee/brace/crutches. I had re-injured it on Friday night snow blowing the 8" of fresh heavy snow we got that morning. Gig wasn't too bad, it was only -5F outside. I stopped by a local music venue after we were done to watch a buddy play for a bit - the bar was packed with snowmobilers and other winter sports people.

This morning it was -27F air temp. All week we are in the freezer, and on Friday, the project HIGH temp is -12F.

Life in Northern Wisconsin

 

[JazznFunk]

If only...

I'm scheduled to play an outdoor show 8 days from now, when temps are forecast to be in the low 50s. I know this venue has a policy that they won't even turn on the propane heaters in the audience until it gets below 50°F ...not sure if they are flexible regarding the onstage heaters...or if they even have any onstage heaters!

And then we're back at that same venue in late February, when it may well be even colder!
FML

It would be my policy to have a section in the contract regarding heating for outdoor performances, and to not to play a gig at that venue if they can't find it in their hearts and budget to fire up some measly propane heaters for the band, but that's me. Do people sit outside in that weather to listen?

 

[Bob_Ross]

Do people sit outside in that weather to listen?

They do; those propane heaters are very effective!

I must say, I do love how most venues in this city go out of their way to make customers comfortable outdoors: heaters in the winter, misters in the summer.

But I'm too new to the music scene here to know whether they go out of their way to make the musicians comfortable!

 

[Zooberwerx]

I think this is racial memory from the Blizzard of 78. I was living in Kenmore Square in Boston at that time. There was no food in the supermarkets by the end of the week. The Red Cross ended up distributing rations from the street. Played many a gig in serious snow back in those days. A real PITA, but it looks like I’m facing a repeat of this next Saturday…in D.C of all places.

I was doing an internship at the Washington Hospital Center the winter of '78. By sheer luck, the farmers were there protesting in "full armor". They used their tractors to plow essential roads and transport essential personnel to and from critical services (hospitals, etc.).

Riis

 

[turf3]

In the upper midwest things don't close up at the first sign of snow, most of these go on as scheduled although the crowds will often be light.

See my previous comments on capital investments needed to make it so.

 

[WI Short Scaler]

Here in Central WI temps are something you just have to muddle through. I'm old enough that I feel no shame investing in a heated jacket. That, a good hat and hood, and some gloves and you grin and bear it.

Snow is what it is and you usually deal with it. In all my years of playing I can count on one hand the number of times a venue has cancelled a gig knowing the weather would mean a small (if any) crowd. And I've never had to back out yet, only one gig where a bandmember couldn't make it and we carried on without him.

Just how we were raised, you can't do anything about the weather. I am glad we play much less frequently these days though.

 

[Substrate]

When I lived in New England, the two things were:

Salt
Snow plows

No one who's lived his entire life in Texas, as I had, can understand how much work, and how much capital equipment, is involved in keeping the roads clear and safe to drive on.

Yankees always tell us "you Southerners don't know how to drive in snow" which might be kinda sorta true; but THEIR "knowing how to drive in snow" depends on multi-million dollar investments in plows (those big 'uns that form a phalanx down the freeway are really something to behold); multi-milion dollar investments in salt and salting apparatus, millions of dollars of investments in blowers and small plows operated by individuals under contract to towns and cities; the provision of places to put the removed snow; and the fact that actual ICE as we know it in North Texas is actually quite rare up there. So, yeah, maybe we don't know how to drive in snow, but we're not driving in "snow", we're driving on a thin layer of snow on top of an inch of wet glare ice.

Four wheel drive helps, but not as much as snow tires.

The thing is, no individual, and no municipality, in the South, is going to make Northern level investments (and no Southern taxpayers would stand still for paying for it) to cope with something that happens once or twice a year and melts in three days. When was the last time you saw a genuine snow plow in North Texas? Call up your yard man and tell him you need your driveway plowed. Yeah, right. How many tire stores in North Texas carry real genuine snow tires and a selection of rims? Do you really want to go out there and change to snow tires and back again, two times a year, just in case there's a snow even big enough to merit them? When was the last time you saw an actual snow shovel in a North Texas hardware store? Does Richardson Power Equipment stock snow blowers? Anyone here even heard of the brand "Ariens" that hasn't lived up north?

@turf3 is correct to point out the infrastructure differences in winter driving in New England vs. Texas. (I've lived in both regions.) Yes, plows, sand, and salt make a huge difference. And I'll agree that southern municipalities are right not to spend money on these elements that would sit idle for 364 days a year.

But a fundamental difference I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the civil engineering approach to road building. In New England, freeway interchanges are generally built as "cloverleafs," keeping as much of the roadway on the ground as possible. Bridges are short and level. In Texas (and some other places south of the Mason-Dixon Line), "mixmasters" like the High 5 ( High Five Interchange - Wikipedia ) are built: stacks of curving bridges 100 feet high and half a mile long. They are constructed with banked turns like a NASCAR track, so you can make your big turn on them at highway speeds without slowing. When those roads are covered with icy rain (not snow) they are instantly impassible, no matter how good a driver you think you are. So you can add this to the reasons that cities like Dallas, TX and Atlanta, GA get shut down by an ice storm. It's not just that the drivers don't know how to handle snow. (Yeah, there are plenty of bad drivers in both the southern US states and in New England.)

So, @Pocket Dave , the answer to your question is, in the midwest and northeast, gigs aren't canceled because the people and the infrastructure are prepared to handle the bad weather. And in Texas, you have the night off!

 

[SC Bassboy]

Back in the early days my band once drove from Birmingham, AL to Knoxville, TN in the snow because we had NEVER cancelled a gig. We risked our lives to play to the bar tenders since no patrons braved the snow just to sit at a bar. That was the last time we chose stubbornness over common sense. That being said, touring carries with it an inherent element of adventure. We wouldn't have many stories to tell if everything went off like clockwork.