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Double Bass "Weird" tailpieces

Some of us get to see and hear more variations than others and consequently regard our opinions as being better informed than the average player's. ;)

I am, at the very least, in a position to have seen and heard a lot of instruments with different setup combinations come through my hands. I have had some cherished preconceptions crushed in this manner and have subsequently learned a lot about how stringed instruments voices can be moulded.

Its galling sometimes to have a player with experience of only one or two basses propound a course of action that I know will not produce the desired result. That's when its better for me to turn down the work or use the phrase, "I'm sorry, I don't do that kind of work." :D

Exactly. How each part interacts with the total system is not easy to experience for most of us. We can test drive bows, strings, rosins, and endpin shafts pretty easily and compare them side by side. Bridge, soundposts, tailpieces, tailgut material and length are a good deal more complicated and interrelated and take some experience to set in balance.

However, for new ideas (designs, products) to catch on and spread, the owners of the basses do have to request or at least be agreeable to the new things. In the same way, people doing repairs have to be open to the exploration.
 
Exactly. How each part interacts with the total system is not easy to experience for most of us. We can test drive bows, strings, rosins, and endpin shafts pretty easily and compare them side by side. Bridge, soundposts, tailpieces, tailgut material and length are a good deal more complicated and interrelated and take some experience to set in balance.

However, for new ideas (designs, products) to catch on and spread, the owners of the basses do have to request or at least be agreeable to the new things. In the same way, people doing repairs have to be open to the exploration.

You are always welcome to drop by the shop and play what's here - its the only way to build a bigger data base. ;)
 
I have had the Frirsz tailpiece on my bass for about a week. It didn't do much to solve the wolf tone problem I am having - I am pretty sure it is more an issue with the bass's resonance and not the tailpiece. The afterlengths are roughly tuned with a fourth between the top two strings, a fifth between the middle two, and a fourth between the bottom two. I experimented with different positions (tail cord length) and settled on having the afterlength of the G string around B flat. Frirsz Music recommends "that the tailpiece is installed low on the instrument.* This creates more open string area* below the bridge and is generally the preferred set-up." I tried it all the way back (G string afterlength around A) but this was noticeably worse, so we moved it back up. I guess my bass is a bit larger than what this tailpiece was designed for.
I am not confident to describe the sound quality with any certainty, but it seems like an improvement over the boxwood french style tailpiece I had on the bass. I feel like I can hear a more refined bass tone. Despite it being a tad expensive, I have decided to keep it.
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I have had the Frirsz tailpiece on my bass for about a week. It didn't do much to solve the wolf tone problem I am having - I am pretty sure it is more an issue with the bass's resonance and not the tailpiece. The afterlengths are roughly tuned with a fourth between the top two strings, a fifth between the middle two, and a fourth between the bottom two. I experimented with different positions (tail cord length) and settled on having the afterlength of the G string around B flat. Frirsz Music recommends "that the tailpiece is installed low on the instrument.* This creates more open string area* below the bridge and is generally the preferred set-up." I tried it all the way back (G string afterlength around A) but this was noticeably worse, so we moved it back up. I guess my bass is a bit larger than what this tailpiece was designed for.
I am not confident to describe the sound quality with any certainty, but it seems like an improvement over the boxwood french style tailpiece I had on the bass. I feel like I can hear a more refined bass tone. Despite it being a tad expensive, I have decided to keep it.
View attachment 346114

Try moving it so that the 'D' string after-length is a 'G' and tell us how that sounds.
 
I had the tailpiece installed at a local shop. Because I don't trust myself to get the bridge back in exactly the right place, I am hesitant to experiment much more. We tried the tail cord shorter (d string around E) and longer (d string around f sharp). Too short was a little harder and thinner. Too long also didn't sound so great either-Also less resonance. I didn't have enough time to move it around much more just for the sake of experimentation. It sounded best on the bass where we put it in the first place (d string afterlength around F). So we put it back there. If the tailpiece was an inch longer, maybe we could get the tuning a bit higher and still have the right flexibility in the tail cord. Anyway, as it is, I like the difference it makes to the tone.

I forgot to mention that the tailpiece smells strangely plasticy. I know it is a laminate and I guess it is probably just stained to look like rosewood. It is an unpleasant epoxy like smell when you expect a woody smell. I forgot the weight exactly - something around 230 grams without the tail cord... Maybe not so far from what I would think rosewood would weigh.
 
You've left out Mike Pecanic, the originator of the tailpiece design that Frisz has copied: Link Removed

And The Bass Spa, with their very light hand carved and finished tailpieces: www.thebassspa.com

I have a Pecanic tailpiece made from Clairo Walnut. It did open up the low end to some extent. The nice thing about dealing with Mike is that he is a luthier, so he's good at helping you choose the wood that will compliment your instrument construction. I was considering Ebony but Mike thought Clairo would sound better because it was lighter weight. Replacing the wire cable tailpiece chord also improved the sound. Epiphone guitars had compensated tailpieces in the 1930's and 40's. I had considered getting a Marvin, but there's no place to hang a microphone or a pickup jack, and it even if you were able to mount something on those cables, I would imagine
that would defeat intent of it's design.

Ric
 
I had the tailpiece installed at a local shop. Because I don't trust myself to get the bridge back in exactly the right place, I am hesitant to experiment much more. We tried the tail cord shorter (d string around E) and longer (d string around f sharp). Too short was a little harder and thinner. Too long also didn't sound so great either-Also less resonance. I didn't have enough time to move it around much more just for the sake of experimentation. It sounded best on the bass where we put it in the first place (d string after-length around F). So we put it back there. If the tailpiece was an inch longer, maybe we could get the tuning a bit higher and still have the right flexibility in the tail cord. Anyway, as it is, I like the difference it makes to the tone.

I forgot to mention that the tailpiece smells strangely plasticy. I know it is a laminate and I guess it is probably just stained to look like rosewood. It is an unpleasant epoxy like smell when you expect a woody smell. I forgot the weight exactly - something around 230 grams without the tail cord... Maybe not so far from what I would think rosewood would weigh.

Thanks for the report Jonn. He's probably using some modern finish on those things would be my guess - we're still using linseed oil and paste wax as in days of old. :D

Its still pretty heavy too, at 230 grams - ours average around 116-118 grams.
 
I have a Pecanic tailpiece made from Clairo Walnut. It did open up the low end to some extent. The nice thing about dealing with Mike is that he is a luthier, so he's good at helping you choose the wood that will compliment your instrument construction. I was considering Ebony but Mike thought Clairo would sound better because it was lighter weight.
Ric
Would love to see a picture of your tailpiece Ric.
 
I had considered getting a Marvin, but there's no place to hang a microphone or a pickup jack, and it even if you were able to mount something on those cables, I would imagine
that would defeat intent of it's design.

Ric

I mount my Stat B jack screwed through the felt cover that dampens the cables. Also had a Lifeline jack on there at the same time. Worked fine.
 
i have a quick question about tailpiece wood. i have a massive adjustable ebony contraption on my bass that im taking off soon. just need to decide on a wood. im considering looks and weight. im hoping for as drastic a weight difference as possible so i can clearly hear the difference if any occurs, so im looking for light. as far as looks go, my bass is a dark brown, very dark and chocolaty, so im thinking a brown wood such as mahogany, walnut or wenge might do the trick. im also considering birdseye maple and just having it stained an amber color, i think that might look nice on my bass (uncolored maple might be a bit harsh on the eyes.) or my final choice, if im looking for serious bling, is zebrawood! my question is, what are the relative weights of these woods like compared to each other and compared to ebony? im sure they will all be lighter than my huge contraption, even another ebony one, but i really want a different wood.

i have this one right now but i am moving on...
Invalid Link Removed
 
African Mahogany - 43 lbs/ft3
Walnut - 41 lbs/ft3
Wenge - 54 lbs/ft3
Sugar Maple(birdseye) - 44 lbs/ft3
Zebrawood - 54 lbs/ft3
Gaboon Ebony - 65 lbs/ft3

If you know the weight of your tailpiece, you could estimate the potential weight of different wood tailpieces proportionally. Your tailpiece looks exceptionally heavy however so knowing the weight of a more standard shape would be better. You can find all this information on http://www.wood-database.com/
 
African Mahogany - 43 lbs/ft3
Walnut - 41 lbs/ft3
Wenge - 54 lbs/ft3
Sugar Maple(birdseye) - 44 lbs/ft3
Zebrawood - 54 lbs/ft3
Gaboon Ebony - 65 lbs/ft3

If you know the weight of your tailpiece, you could estimate the potential weight of different wood tailpieces proportionally. Your tailpiece looks exceptionally heavy however so knowing the weight of a more standard shape would be better. You can find all this information on http://www.wood-database.com/

thanks for the info, very interesting. so ebony seems to be very heavy, and there is quite a difference between some of them... maple and walnut seem to be on the lighter end of the spectrum. so what is the second most common tailpiece wood? in other words, if one doesnt like ebony, what is the typical next step? all the way down to maple or a stop off somewhere in the middle at around wenge or zebra? i know i will reduce weight just by putting another ebony one on with a more conventional shape, so maybe going down in increments with a smaller size tail piece and a medium weight wood might be a good first step rather than a drastic drop in size and density all at the same time?
 
I would need to see your bass in person to make any kind of recommendation. Maybe if we knew specifically what it is you're trying to change about your bass's sound, someone could help you out.

well mostly the bass just feels tight, so jeff bollbach and i are trying to loosen it up a bit. also as you go up the neck it loses volume. im certianly going to consult with him on wood, but i thought id check with the forum too. we're raising the saddle too, the bridge is really tall. but mostly, i think the tailpiece that i currently have on the bass is the first thing to go when people are upgrading these basses, so time to get rid of it and get a proper one
 
I've been trying to get a Mike Pecanic tailpiece but I can't get in touch with him, I've noticed the website was down for a while, now is back on but I've not been able to place an order... Anyone knows?

I did the same - tried 3 different email addresses on his website with no response. I'm living outside of the US now so I would rather not call. Anyway I was impatient...