I got my SB-2 off evilbay about3 years or so ago and I have been pretty happy with it. I had to play around with the bridge and I replaced the strings with some supernils (best I could afford at the time) and got a K&K bassmax system for it and it worked pretty well for what I needed it for. The biggest issue I have had with it is that the soundpost fell over during a move, and honestly i wasn't extremely careful with it. beyond that, the fingerboard pulled away ever-so-slightly from the neck right at the spot where the neck ends. It, fortunately, has not affected the playing of the instrument at all and I have no dead noted. It has not moved from that spot since I first noticed it and honestly might have been that way from the factory. Overall, for the money I have into it I am happy with it. While I certainly have seen and played nicer, this does everything I need it to.
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Double Bass what are your thoughts on a Cremona SB-2
- Thread starter BassGreaser
- Start date
save your money and get a slap king from king. i've owned a cremona and it was junk,played bad(some of that was me) and all around low quality bass. get a king, jus' my two cents
i've got a higher-end carlo robelli chinese heap (this model normally goes for around $1800 new) and am going to weigh in on the "stay the F*CK away" side. the crappy whitewood "ebonized" fretbord offers the same relative stiffening to the neck as a container of pasta salad would if i just sorta slathered it on there. consequently the neck moves around more than shakira's hips.
i've since purchased a much better romanian from the talkbass classifieds and am now in the midst of a conundrum. see i'd love to sell the robelli and see if i can get some of my dough back, however i don't know that i feel comfortable foisting it off on some unsuspecting noob.
maybe i'll see if i can get a bunch of guys to donate $20 each at the annual GTG and offer it up as a sacrifice
let everyone beat out their chinese-bass-inspired hatred on it with a baseball bat or golf club or something.
i've since purchased a much better romanian from the talkbass classifieds and am now in the midst of a conundrum. see i'd love to sell the robelli and see if i can get some of my dough back, however i don't know that i feel comfortable foisting it off on some unsuspecting noob.
maybe i'll see if i can get a bunch of guys to donate $20 each at the annual GTG and offer it up as a sacrifice
let everyone beat out their chinese-bass-inspired hatred on it with a baseball bat or golf club or something.
Wow! $1800 and you had that experience? I'm really sorry that happened to you. I sure hope you didn't pay that much. As you know, that price is quite above the usual CCB prices and can actually buy you a very nice laminate (e.g., Invalid Link Removed).
no, i got it used from a sam ash for around $1k and at that price it's not a horrible bass, it's fully carved and with about $1k of setup and neck repair it'd probably be a fairly playable bass, i'm just not willing to invest that kinda dough in a chinese heap.
for the record, the romanian i picked up was this one. it's much nicer than the chinese, cracks dents and all
no, i got it used from a sam ash for around $1k and at that price it's not a horrible bass, it's fully carved and with about $1k of setup and neck repair it'd probably be a fairly playable bass, i'm just not willing to invest that kinda dough in a chinese heap.
for the record, the romanian i picked up was this one. it's much nicer than the chinese, cracks dents and all
Glad it all worked out for you and that you're happy. Thanks for sharing your story so that others may be prevented from stepping where you stepped.
well, i've still got to figure out how to divest myself of the CCB in a noob-friendly manner so i'm not quite at the happy ending yet...but, as you say, i'm glad my experience can serve some useful purpose
I fell into the Crapatino trap about 7 years ago. I am lucky the thing is still going and I learned some set up skills along the way. Now it sits in an unheated cabin in Colorado mountains to give me something to plunk on when I'm up there. They must have used an extra portion of the heat glue when they made mine. New stings helped.
I think based on all evidence I have been very lucky but it has been a struggle. If it was a character building experience then I sure have a whole heck of a lot of character now.
My new fully carved bass that I've had for 3 months was a real ear opener and has not failed to disapoint. I say, on balance, don't buy it.
I think based on all evidence I have been very lucky but it has been a struggle. If it was a character building experience then I sure have a whole heck of a lot of character now.
My new fully carved bass that I've had for 3 months was a real ear opener and has not failed to disapoint. I say, on balance, don't buy it.
I know there's a stigma here, but I got the Robelli 600 series bass (which retails for $1800) and my experience has been good.
Furthermore, I brought it to Bruce Wallace, who's one of the the "go to" luthiers here in Tampa. After thoroughly inspecting and playing the bass, Bruce was pretty impressed with it for the money. In fact he remarked that in addition to it sounding good, the setup was pretty good as well. There was an area beneath the G string in the first postion that needed some attention. Other than that, he told me to keep it. (I had two days left to get a full refund from Sam Ash).
Furthermore, I brought it to Bruce Wallace, who's one of the the "go to" luthiers here in Tampa. After thoroughly inspecting and playing the bass, Bruce was pretty impressed with it for the money. In fact he remarked that in addition to it sounding good, the setup was pretty good as well. There was an area beneath the G string in the first postion that needed some attention. Other than that, he told me to keep it. (I had two days left to get a full refund from Sam Ash).
how much attention did it need? dressing/planing? i'm curious because mine is similar, but to a greater degree and i'm wondering how far down the board can be planed before whitewood starts showing up
It needed the slightest bit of planing. I spoke to Bruce since I posted. He still maintains it's a good bass for the money, but said the after working on the fingerboard, it appears to be a low grade ebony, with a dark stain. I mentioned whitewood, and he said he wouldn't call it that, and that it was an adequate hard wood, but not particularly high grade. He also found some frustration in that the nut appears to have been epoxyed down, making removal risky. Another observation was the the solid top seems more machine pressed than carved, making the long term prospects of cracking possible. It plays and sounds good though, and the components (tuners, tailpiece, end peg) are solid.
Maybe we should engage in a class action suit with Ash for misrepresenting the carved top, and Klier fingerboard, LOL!!
Maybe we should engage in a class action suit with Ash for misrepresenting the carved top, and Klier fingerboard, LOL!!
ha! sign me up
good to know that i can plane/sand it a bit without striking birch or something
Ok, can anyone tell me the difference between a cremona sb 1, 2, or 3 as opposed to an sb 4? Im looking at one(sb 4) in Hawaii, for about 1495.00 tag price. Im just starting out, will this bass be sufficient to learn on and is it worth the price or should I be looking for 600.00 beater like everyones been saying not to get. Already waited almost a decade to find something I could afford when I had the money in hand. Please advise.
All the best,
Ethonius
All the best,
Ethonius
I disagree with those who deem the Cremona SB-2 "unplayable." I owned and played one for several years and never had a problem with it, aside from it not having an adjustable bridge. As far as it being unsellable, not so. I sold it within one month of placing in my favorite local music shop. It sold for $600--only $200 less than I paid for it brand new, with the original strings mounted no less.
Is it a great instrument? No, far from it. Is it totally unplayable? Absolutely not. As someone else already said, cheap instruments dont turn away those who truly want to play.
In fact, I would argue that more expensive instruments are just as likely--if not moreso--to intimidate would-be players of modest means from getting started at all. To say one must pay more than one can afford to get a "playable" instrument is to say one must be of a certain level of affluence to be allowed into the country club. I think that the desire to play should always trump mere instrument quality in that regard.
Is it a great instrument? No, far from it. Is it totally unplayable? Absolutely not. As someone else already said, cheap instruments dont turn away those who truly want to play.
In fact, I would argue that more expensive instruments are just as likely--if not moreso--to intimidate would-be players of modest means from getting started at all. To say one must pay more than one can afford to get a "playable" instrument is to say one must be of a certain level of affluence to be allowed into the country club. I think that the desire to play should always trump mere instrument quality in that regard.
I strongly disagree with the statements above. As many of us who have been around the block know, cheap instruments are often the most difficult to play and are the least rewarding in terms of how they sound. Sadly, it is just these instruments that end up in the hands of beginners, who are the least well equipped to overcome their substantial drawbacks. It's probably true that, given a very high level of motivation, such an instrument will not cause a beginner to quit. Absent such a strong will, such an instrument has, does, and will, cause many to give up in frustration. This is especially true if the instrument is poorly set up as many "cheap" instruments are. Often, the setup work is not worth doing on such instruments and, if done, the total cost ends up being the same as what a better instrument would have cost if purchased from a bona-fide bass shop that includes the setup work.
I just don't see the validity to the argument that more expensive (read higher quality) instruments are "just as likely--if not moreso--to intimidate would-be players of modest means from getting started at all." Place a better instrument into the hands of a beginner and my experience tells me that there will be a higher chance for success and much greater pleasure.
I don't know who would say such a thing. Certainly, I wouldn't. What I would say and what I have said is that one should buy the very best instrument that one can afford. For a new bass, I'd place the absolute minimum at $1200-$1500. In order to end up with a decent instrument with a good setup, that's the going rate. There's no magic. It's not about being allowed into the club. If that's more than one can afford, then I'd suggest re-thinking. Perhaps a rental agreement would be wise in such a case.
As for the Cremona, buying one is, IMO, not a good choice a priori. You seem to have made out ok, a posteriori. If you've been around TB long enough, then you know that for every Cremona "success story," there are many more tragic stories.
Certainly a better instrument makes for a better beginner experience, and it was not my intention to argue otherwise. But high prices DO in fact inhibit would-be musicians from pursuing music. That is indisputable.
Therefore (in my own experience) the motivated would-be musician should be enouraged to purchase the best instrument he or she can afford -- not discouraged from attempting music at all because the recommended instruments are all beyond their means. Are cheap instruments discouraging? Sure. But it does no good to start someone out of the gate on a negative foot by telling them the only instruments they can afford are "unplayable." Speaking as a teacher, that in itself sets the student up to be discouraged. They should instead be enouraged to make the most of what they can afford. Positive encouragement is crucial to succesful musical development, and that includes not trashing a beginners' potentially poor instrument quality.
That said, you may be quite right about the Cremona SB-2 being a hit-or-miss crap-shoot; however, in my experience cheap Chinese instruments are not the only ones subject to quality control issues. I'm by no means an advocate for cheap Chinese imports; I'm simply an advocate for making music available to all.
Therefore (in my own experience) the motivated would-be musician should be enouraged to purchase the best instrument he or she can afford -- not discouraged from attempting music at all because the recommended instruments are all beyond their means. Are cheap instruments discouraging? Sure. But it does no good to start someone out of the gate on a negative foot by telling them the only instruments they can afford are "unplayable." Speaking as a teacher, that in itself sets the student up to be discouraged. They should instead be enouraged to make the most of what they can afford. Positive encouragement is crucial to succesful musical development, and that includes not trashing a beginners' potentially poor instrument quality.
That said, you may be quite right about the Cremona SB-2 being a hit-or-miss crap-shoot; however, in my experience cheap Chinese instruments are not the only ones subject to quality control issues. I'm by no means an advocate for cheap Chinese imports; I'm simply an advocate for making music available to all.
Do cheap instruments really bring music to the masses?
We have a proliferation of cheap musical instruments like never before in history. I would expect to see a corresponding surge in music being played.
Rather what's happening is that there are lots of people buying them, and then not playing them. (Just like how almost every American owns a bicycle, but few ride them with any regularity).
Case in point.
My wife's nephews were given cheap guitars by their parents.
When I was a boy, my parents let me play a Martin guitar that my Grandpa bought in 1956 (which they eventually gave to me).
(my Grandpa lived through the depression, and was frugal. They were lower middle class, and a Martin wasn't cheap in those days either. OTOH, my wife's nephews have a lawyer for a dad, live in a very large house with a lot of toys and gadgets. But $1000 for a musical instrument is extravagant in their book.)
On my wife's side of the family, she is the only one who plays an instrument (she was rebel...). On my side of the family, there are many, many members who play music on a regular basis.
Cheap instruments enter the realm of toys. Families that treat musical instruments as something important, and invest in quality instruments, are much, much more likely to have children who take an interest in making music.
And the difference between a $5-750 cheap chinese bass, and a $1,500 entry level quality bass, is not that one of them is bringing music to the
masses, it's that the purchaser of the former has a different set of priorities than the purchaser of the latter.
We have a proliferation of cheap musical instruments like never before in history. I would expect to see a corresponding surge in music being played.
Rather what's happening is that there are lots of people buying them, and then not playing them. (Just like how almost every American owns a bicycle, but few ride them with any regularity).
Case in point.
My wife's nephews were given cheap guitars by their parents.
When I was a boy, my parents let me play a Martin guitar that my Grandpa bought in 1956 (which they eventually gave to me).
(my Grandpa lived through the depression, and was frugal. They were lower middle class, and a Martin wasn't cheap in those days either. OTOH, my wife's nephews have a lawyer for a dad, live in a very large house with a lot of toys and gadgets. But $1000 for a musical instrument is extravagant in their book.)
On my wife's side of the family, she is the only one who plays an instrument (she was rebel...). On my side of the family, there are many, many members who play music on a regular basis.
Cheap instruments enter the realm of toys. Families that treat musical instruments as something important, and invest in quality instruments, are much, much more likely to have children who take an interest in making music.
And the difference between a $5-750 cheap chinese bass, and a $1,500 entry level quality bass, is not that one of them is bringing music to the
masses, it's that the purchaser of the former has a different set of priorities than the purchaser of the latter.
I disagree with this being the overwhelming reason as to why one might choose to purchase a cheaper instrument. Unless you want to consider that keeping a roof over your children's heads while also helping them pursue music to the best of your financial abilities constitutes a "different set of priorities." There are many reasons a cheaper instrument must suffice, none of which have to do with desire to invest in a quality instrument.
Again, my point is not about the market being flooded with cheap imports; as I have already stated, I do not specifically advocate for such. I advocate for encouraging musicians to make the most of what they can afford. If that means a $750 Chinese heap is the best they can do, so be it.
As for kids not playing instruments they are given these days, I would chalk that up far more to Playstation and Internet than to quality of the instrument. My own children started out with laughably poor instruments and refuse to QUIT playing even as the instruments are falling apart in their laps, just as I did. Perhaps I learned to be that way from my father, who learned guitar and ukelele himself on homemade instruments made while he was in a Japanese prison camp in WW II. The priority for him and his fellow prisoners was not to own a fine instrument; it was to make music, by any means possible.
Instruments do not make musicians. Love of music does.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
Jazzbox,
I agree with you that if the choice is absolutely between a $500 bass or no bass, someone should drop the $500. There is a good chance they will have problems in the future and they MAY have been better off burning the $500, but maybe not.
There have been times in my life when I couldn't have possibly come up with more money for something I wanted without asking my kids to sacrifice. It was more important to provide for my family. Some family budgets simply don't permit both beer AND baby formula. Sure glad I don't have that problem anymore.
However, I've lost count of the number of slabbers posting here who claim they can't afford anything better than a cheap Ebay bass. A quick check of their profile shows an arsenal of expensive electric basses and amps. It is often just a matter of priorities.
I agree with you that if the choice is absolutely between a $500 bass or no bass, someone should drop the $500. There is a good chance they will have problems in the future and they MAY have been better off burning the $500, but maybe not.
There have been times in my life when I couldn't have possibly come up with more money for something I wanted without asking my kids to sacrifice. It was more important to provide for my family. Some family budgets simply don't permit both beer AND baby formula. Sure glad I don't have that problem anymore.
However, I've lost count of the number of slabbers posting here who claim they can't afford anything better than a cheap Ebay bass. A quick check of their profile shows an arsenal of expensive electric basses and amps. It is often just a matter of priorities.
@Jazzbox
I think we actually agree quite a bit, and I'm sorry if I misunderstood your position.
Thank you for sharing your dad's story, it's exactly what I was talking about.
Your dad clearly had that love of music, which reflected in his priorities. He invested significant time and energy, which could have been spent doing something else, making an instrument. Music was obviously one of his highest life priorities.
Those priorities obviously influenced yours.
I remember my parents having to pawn stuff off to feed us, when we were kids. The pawned their wedding rings, they sold anything that wasn't "essential", but pawning/selling an instrument was taboo, unless you had nothing left to part with.
Those were their priorities and they influence me.
Separately, I'm not about to tell a person who lives below the poverty level that their priorities are off if they're not willing to spend at least $X on a bass. (In fact, I'm in admiration of anyone for whom making music is on their essential list, regardless of their personal wealth).
Nor am I even going to tell a wealthy person that their priorities are off if they don't believe in spending more that $X on a bass.
My point, rather, was that often I see people who are not poor, (maybe just a bit cash-strapped from living the American lifestyle), insisting that it is circumstance that dictates what they do, and refusing to admit that their choice of musical instrument is a reflection of their priorities.
In any case, I really can't see how a Cremona is the best choice in any of these examples.
I think we actually agree quite a bit, and I'm sorry if I misunderstood your position.
Thank you for sharing your dad's story, it's exactly what I was talking about.
Your dad clearly had that love of music, which reflected in his priorities. He invested significant time and energy, which could have been spent doing something else, making an instrument. Music was obviously one of his highest life priorities.
Those priorities obviously influenced yours.
I remember my parents having to pawn stuff off to feed us, when we were kids. The pawned their wedding rings, they sold anything that wasn't "essential", but pawning/selling an instrument was taboo, unless you had nothing left to part with.
Those were their priorities and they influence me.
Separately, I'm not about to tell a person who lives below the poverty level that their priorities are off if they're not willing to spend at least $X on a bass. (In fact, I'm in admiration of anyone for whom making music is on their essential list, regardless of their personal wealth).
Nor am I even going to tell a wealthy person that their priorities are off if they don't believe in spending more that $X on a bass.
My point, rather, was that often I see people who are not poor, (maybe just a bit cash-strapped from living the American lifestyle), insisting that it is circumstance that dictates what they do, and refusing to admit that their choice of musical instrument is a reflection of their priorities.
In any case, I really can't see how a Cremona is the best choice in any of these examples.
