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What course after BassBuzz?

#41
Snipehunter said:
The problem with the Bass White Pages is that the song selection is heavily slanted toward music from the era the book was created (like 20 years ago) and limited by the rights the publisher could obtain.

To me, Invalid Link Removed is the better modern resource for tabs and music. Just ignore the user submitted tabs. I think it's like fifteen dollars a year and they give you access to this giant catalog of "Official" versions of the tab/music for each song. Not only that but it will play the music for you, let you isolate instruments, slow down, etc. Be sure to click the button to download the backing track so the music doesn't sound so synthesized.

My current method for learning songs is to first try and figure it out by ear with the assistance of software such as Transcribe!. Then I will check my work with what's on Ultimate Guitar. On occasion I will find that the official version at Ultimate Guitar has a wrong note but for the most part it's pretty accurate. You can let them know if something is wrong in the music and they can correct it. The publisher can't do that with a book. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I figured I'd sign up once I'm a little more seasoned. I still have 45 songs to learn from just the BassBuzz source, so, that can take a while. I actually tried using Transcribe! to help me figure out one song I like, and for the life of me I don't know how. I slowed it down, I isolated the bass, and I turned on note guessing, but what it's identifying on the displayed keyboard looks like a sea of green dots and I have no idea how to interpret it. I need to find a HOWTO or tutorial for that software. Doesn't help that the music I like usually doesn't have very clear bass lines, but this particular song does.
 
#43
Horgh said:
That is a good question. I'd like to be well-rounded and competent, I don't believe I'll ever be "good". That's not a self esteem issue, that's just being realistic, seeing how I'm in my 40s already and have a lot of other things going on in my life. If I had to shoot for the stars, I would say my ultimate goal would be to play like @DistortedBass does in his demo videos, for example:



But that's never going to happen.



That looks pretty complete, however... if I'm not mistaken, his sales/pricing model involves access to a particular course for a year, correct? That doesn't work for me as I don't want to be time rushed. Some days I can practice for 2 hours, some days I only have 15 minutes. I need permanent access like Mark offers.
Click to expand...


I appreciate the kind words. I think what you want to do is within your reach. In between gear reviews, teaching, plus my other gigs, I go for periods of very little time for personal practice. The thing that made the biggest difference for me was learning how to learn. It's one thing to know what you want, and to do regular practice, and another to have a methodology that gets exactly to the points you need work on and gives you a solid, methodical approach to goal attainment. Even after periods on not being able to focus on my own playing, I can bounce back into shape and move a few steps forward using solid methodology.

Knowing how to break down your playing and make targeted improvements can give you progress even with limited time.
If I can offer some advice or tips, feel free to reach out. Thanks again for the playing compliments and watching the channel.
 
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#44
Old thread
Commentary -questions and seeking answers ! I hope moderator accepts this approach of using a year old
thread !

Before I begin let me say a few things about my motive.
I want to do two things - play better bass and especially learn how to teach bass !

I read most of this thread and was trying to understand, get inside the skin of the guy in his forties, who is busy in his life, doesn’t feel he has sufficient time or talent to reach his “goal”.

Back to my background i started on piano at 5.
then sax at 15
then elec bass at 21 all three of these “came “ very naturally.
so i guess there was a cumulative effect of 1st playing piano then sax and finally bass.
It took me a total of two weeks between the time the bass was purchased for me (by the bandleader offering me a job) and the night i played my first bass gig- a relatively easy style
for me ( a jazz inclined person ) . the bandleader knew my background with sax and piano . and encouraged me by buying the bass.

in other words bass came very easily but then so did sax and piano harmony and simpler rhythm
forgive this bluntness -
but i seem to have a lot of talent
man that is awkward to say out loud sorry

ok here’s my problem /
topic for discussion

help me and other would be teachers how to
understand the frustration of a student like the one who started this thread

i seriously want to understand;
it sucks having talent to play because this takes away from ability
to teach.
and i need to learn how to teach and i want to teach too!

help me get inside the mind of people who speak of “goals “ . i don’t understand how this bass player could possibly know what a good or bad path or goal is!
How does he know what’s right
for him ? he mentioned House of the Rising sun
i heard it when it first came out when i was playing sax and keys
there was nothing difficult about it to me . in retrospect i recently ( 50 years later ) had to play it at a jam.. which caused me to listen to it carefully . THE FORM of that song was being played incorrectly by some jammers
But 6/8 or 12/8 time is right up
my alley .. i love that time feel.
so playing it is easy . the only issues would be. 1. play it with a groove -2 be in tune- 3 don’t play too loud or too soft
4 memorize the chord structure / FORM
 
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#45
suraci said:
I read most of this thread and was trying to understand, get inside the skin of the guy in his forties, who is busy in his life, doesn’t feel he has sufficient time or talent to reach his “goal”.

in other words bass came very easily but then so did sax and piano harmony and simpler rhythm
forgive this bluntness -
but i seem to have a lot of talent
man that is awkward to say out loud sorry

help me and other would be teachers how to
understand the frustration of a student like the one who started this thread

i seriously want to understand;
it sucks having talent to play because this takes away from ability
to teach.
and i need to learn how to teach and i want to teach too!
Click to expand...

Since I'm the OP who you want to understand so much, I guess I should answer. Just like playing bass doesn't come "naturally" to me like it does to you, teaching doesn't come naturally to you. Just reading your post, that is pretty obvious. Not everyone can teach, just like not everyone will be a good bassist. Perhaps we have something in common.

I have taught people things, in various aspects of life, and identifying with the student comes easily to me. Why? Maybe because nothing else comes easily and I had to work at everything I've learned and know. It's easy to think back to where I started, my struggles, tricks that got me ahead, etc. That is what I see Josh from BassBuzz do very well, he really understands his virtual students, even though he's never met them. Mark from TalkingBass does it to a degree as well, even though his courses don't hold the student's hand as much and don't have as much natural progress.

If you can't identify with the "common man", perhaps stick to being a music virtuoso.
 
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#46
Ouch. .. ok i can’t identify ! We can continue this line of thought privately . i’m not offended and appreciate what you said

i would offer you free lessons where you could give suggestions for me to improve , except i don’t think you would value that offer.
Sincerely. - thank you


ps. Josh is at a genius level as a teacher .my sax teacher is comparable
 
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#47
i’ve had a little more time to absorb what you’ve said

I would say, there are two schools
of thought on teaching
trust the teacher
and DIRECT the teacher
Directing the teacher is akin to a child directing his parents increasingly
the school of the students / child does the directing , is very much in vogue . it is a societal wave

there are two sides to this which can yield a blending of old school and modern school
Listening empathizing even mind reading is the area i need much work with
oddly though on a bandstand i like to use my intuition as to what’s going on. i’m asked to watch a key player and i tend to not watch , preferring to use an instinct or intuition versus eyeballing a person , which to me, takes me out of the depth of the music .

I got the feeling the music genre you are attracted to, is not mainstream - it’s a specialty. some particular band or bands that play that style
which cuts you out of 99% of the totality of music
hey. that’s ok too
BUT developing a general versus specific ( your particular bands bass player ) approach may surprise you

it yields deeper understand of bass in music. period .
ok those are a few ideas for you
 
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#48
suraci said:
i’ve had a little more time to absorb what you’ve said

I would say, there are two schools
of thought on teaching
trust the teacher
and DIRECT the teacher
Directing the teacher is akin to a child directing his parents increasingly
the school of the students / child does the directing , is very much in vogue . it is a societal wave

there are two sides to this which can yield a blending of old school and modern school
Listening empathizing even mind reading is the area i need much work with
oddly though on a bandstand i like to use my intuition as to what’s going on. i’m asked to watch a key player and i tend to not watch , preferring to use an instinct or intuition versus eyeballing a person , which to me, takes me out of the depth of the music .
Click to expand...

It's very common for people with skills in a certain area to want to teach, and for them to realise that they don't know the first thing about teaching. Teaching is a real skill, a true art. For most of us, there are very few teachers from our childhood that had lasting impressions on us.

As for being a bass teacher...

Do you understand what a bass curriculum looks like?
Where does a new bass player start?
Where does an intermediate bass player start? What is an intermediate bass player?
Do you understand how to pace a lesson so the student is in a zone where they are not frustrated, and not bored?
Do you know how to set SMART goals?
Can you explain complex ideas in a simple way?

Also, I would argue that what you call "directed teaching" is reserved for at the very least intermediate players, but usually more advanced players. They'll often seek out specific teachers to help with specific things. For example, someone like me who can play well but wanted to understand the theory of bass. We do not work on technique at all, just pure theory and its application.
 
#49
No. i do not. If you might care to share this info, that would be helpful .

I guess the piano more than the sax, was the main “engine “ for why bass seemed so natural to me. i’m not speaking about technically as in a virtuoso… i mean conceptually.

By directed ( by student ) i refer to the student at a fairly early stage wanting mostly songs asap.
Old school did not operate this way.
I know why you say advanced student will seek solutions to an aspect that is unclear to him . i once sought out a conductor on how to conduct on an entry level.

But from my conversations with music teachers they have said that the young student “directs” the flow , in terms of songs / styles .
As a boy, that idea of directing the teachers attention to my musical wishes, never occurred to me.

Re “Bass curriculum”. my come
back is “Music curriculum” with bass secondary to overall knowledge .
 
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#50
suraci said:
No. i do not. If you might care to share this info, that would be helpful .

I guess the piano more than the sax, was the main “engine “ for why bass seemed so natural to me. i’m not speaking about technically as in a virtuoso… i mean conceptually.

By directed ( by student ) i refer to the student at a fairly early stage wanting mostly songs asap.
Old school did not operate this way.
I know why you say advanced student will seek solutions to an aspect that is unclear to him . i once sought out a conductor on how to conduct on an entry level.

But from my conversations with music teachers they have said that the young student “directs” the flow , in terms of songs / styles .
As a boy, that idea of directing the teachers attention to my musical wishes, never occurred to me.

Re “Bass curriculum”. my come
back is “Music curriculum” with bass secondary to overall knowledge .
Click to expand...

Well many teachers would not even take on a student who just wanted to learn songs. I think we should discount those for the purposes of this discussion. I think for your situation, you should work on the premise that someone will come to you and say "I want to learn how to play the bass guitar", having never even held one before.

How do they hold it?
What fingers do they use?
How hard do you fret?
What's your posture?

All these are lessons you can take from being a pianist. How far away do you sit? How do you hold your hands? Are you shoulders too tense? You will need to understand all this as it applies to the bass.

By bass curriculum, I mean... how do you start your noobie? How many notes are on a bass? How many of each note are there? Where are the notes? Do you start with a major scale? How long do you spend on the major scale? How deep will you expect your students to know the major scale? Then what? Arpeggios? Inversions? Sightreading? Transcriptions? etc etc..

I don't have answers to these questions - I am simply giving you some food for thought. Having had one bass teacher before my current one, I can see the difference between someone who teaches bass, and a true bass teacher. The difference is night and day.
 
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#51
you have your finger right on the pulse of this question about being ( becoming !!) an effective teacher.

Subconsciously many of the hypotheticals you casually brought up.. they are unanswered questions for me. But are opportunities for a gifted true teacher . as i’ve said, i’ve been blessed to experience great teachers. more than a few .
It would be extremely rare for a musician to be equally gifted in performance and teaching .
To this day , sixty years hence , from the day i met my sax teacher… he blew my mind every time we met. He was expensive and i saw him very irregularly over at least a 20 year period . I am astounded that he could make a lesson so magical .. I was gifted but that didn’t prevent him with surprising me every time . He taught a who’s who of
20th century sax and clarinet players both jazz and classical
So YES i get it. i don’t feel worthy to even consider myself a teacher.
 
#52
Horgh said:
Since I'm the OP who you want to understand so much, I guess I should answer. Just like playing bass doesn't come "naturally" to me like it does to you, teaching doesn't come naturally to you. Just reading your post, that is pretty obvious. Not everyone can teach, just like not everyone will be a good bassist. Perhaps we have something in common.

I have taught people things, in various aspects of life, and identifying with the student comes easily to me. Why? Maybe because nothing else comes easily and I had to work at everything I've learned and know. It's easy to think back to where I started, my struggles, tricks that got me ahead, etc. That is what I see Josh from BassBuzz do very well, he really understands his virtual students, even though he's never met them. Mark from TalkingBass does it to a degree as well, even though his courses don't hold the student's hand as much and don't have as much natural progress.

If you can't identify with the "common man", perhaps stick to being a music virtuoso.
I realized this when I was in graduate school. Not all young scientists who graduate from graduate school and get a degree can become good scientists or get a position as a junior professor to teach other generations of students. I have often seen graduate students get a ready-made diversion or part of it simply by buying it at https://edubirdie.com/buy-dissertation. The same analogy can be drawn with the mutilation of music, painting, or any other science. But there are people who managed to become real virtuosos, although they cannot be good teachers, you need to remember this when choosing an online training course.
Click to expand...

You wrote a very interesting idea! Not every good musician can be a good teacher. I often encounter this error. When I see how young musicians want to get experience from great musicians, but they are simply not interested in doing it.
 
#53
ChrisBassX said:
You wrote a very interesting idea! Not every good musician can be a good teacher. I often encounter this error. When I see how young musicians want to get experience from great musicians, but they are simply not interested in doing it.
Click to expand...

That goes beyond music, though, often those with natural talent don't like teaching others, or simply don't know how since they didn't follow typical learning steps themselves. It's also worth noting that different people learn different ways and look for different things out of those lessons. A good teacher is flexible enough to teach the core content everyone needs, but in one-on-one scenarios can also tailor that material to the individual student. Without doing so, the student can become frustrated, or bored, or both.
 
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#54
Horgh said:
That goes beyond music, though, often those with natural talent don't like teaching others, or simply don't know how since they didn't follow typical learning steps themselves. It's also worth noting that different people learn different ways and look for different things out of those lessons. A good teacher is flexible enough to teach the core content everyone needs, but in one-on-one scenarios can also tailor that material to the individual student. Without doing so, the student can become frustrated, or bored, or both.
Click to expand...
In your posts a year ago you mentioned natural talent several times.

While I don’t disagree that some players have a natural affinity for learning or for executing certain skills, I think the occurrence of natural talent is generally overstated. I think that, in most cases, players who appear to have natural talent are actually just players who have put in an awful lot of work.

I’ve been playing for over 35 years and I consider myself a pretty good bassist (although I’m far from being any sort of virtuoso). I wasn’t pretty good when I started. I was barely adequate. What improved my playing was not any innate talent or natural gift; it was time practicing, studying with teachers and getting up on the bandstand. Like you, I’ve always had other responsibilities and a very hectic, unpredictable schedule. As a result, I haven’t put in nearly the work I’d like to have and I know plenty of players who are better than I am - many of whom have been playing for fewer years. I don’t believe they had a special gift, either; they just did more work than I did, either because they had more free time or more determination.

In your early posts you suggested that you might never get “good” but, based upon your descriptions of the work you had already done, I propose that you might actually be better than you think you are. I don’t know what you’ve been up to for the past year but in your early posts you demonstrated that you have the drive to put in the work. Having that determination; that’s what others perceive as “natural talent.”

All this is a long-winded way to say that you shouldn’t sell yourself short. Find people to play with. Clock some hours on the bandstand. Play some gigs that stink. Learn from them. Continue to practice and learn songs and work on your reading. Repeat.
That’s the “natural gift”: the willingness to work hard.
 
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