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Double Bass what does vomit exercises mean ?

#2
"Vomits" are a shifting exercise, typically done with one finger. You are meant to stay one one string as you shift from the tonic to another note in a scale, then back again to the tonic. Generally you would slur through the shift, while simultaneously trying to mask to shift sound.

Ex. A - B B - A A - C# C# - A A - D D - A A - E E - A A, etc.
 
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#7
I'm not sure if this has been discussed in previous Threads regarding the "Vomit" exercises. (see Prof. Bradetich's video, previously).

For example : If the interval to be played is "A - B", with 1 on the A, and the target finger is 2 on the B - the 1st finger glisses up to a Bb. The 2nd finger is now in position to play the B. It's crucial to have the 1st finger gliss and "measure" that distance, while maintaining contact with the string throughout this motion. The return motion is the opposite - the 2nd finger on the B, glisses back to Bb, and "measures" the shift, while maintaining contact with the string, throughout. The 1st finger is now in position to play the A. No mater how large the interval, or the direction, it is always executed as a "gliss", with the primary finger never loosing contact with the string. As the motion becomes faster and more confident, the gliss becomes inaudible.

Larger intervals (an Octave or more), can also expose posture issues, i.e., there should be no "break" in the motion of the left hand or the posture - the goal is to be able to get to any note, on any string, anywhere on the fingerboard, with minimal posture repositioning or fuss. (Prof. Bradetich covers this nicely in the 3 Octave gliss exercise).

For the Bow, this concept encourages consistent sound production, regardless of the size/degree of difficulty of the shift. There is a belief that the left and right hemispheres of the brain can "share" stress, that is, a large shift can, (unconsciously), lead to a timid bow. ( Google "Bilateral Transfer"). A confident bow can actually aid the left hand in the shifting process, or at the least, minimize its unconscious interference in the shifting process.

For Jazz players, this constant contact, of the left hand with the string, is crucial to the production of Legato quarter notes - the production of Legato pizzicato notes, (by the left hand), is identical to the production of Legato "Arco" notes. My "Jazz" students are encouraged ("required"!), to learn to play Legato with the bow.
Sorry if I'm "regurgitating" previously discussed ideas. I did a quick search but did not find any discussion regarding this specific topic.
Thanks.
don kasper
 
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#11
Sam Sherry said:
Here's a detailed explanation.

From a previous thread. The search button is your friend, and so am I.
Click to expand...

I don't get the "Yes the third finger(s)" below the octave that you insert in the above detailed explanation. I'm 99% Simandl myself! Are you just doing it to toughen your callous? While I'm not belittling the Vomit exercises, since so many great players endorse them, the act of sliding into notes bothers me. Maybe I'm too square, but I've always considered it "cheating." I've always looked down or at least askance at players who slide around in the thumb position rather than fingering the notes cleanly. I am, however, amazed at how you can hardly hear the gliss as the man in the clip bows the scales.
 
#12
gerry grable said:
I don't get the "Yes the third finger(s)" below the octave that you insert in the above detailed explanation.
Click to expand...

I've always changed from 4th to 3rd fingers at the F when doing shifting drills/vomits. So the only time I would start on a third finger is when I am starting on F or above (or C on the D string, etc.), which I rarely do.


gerry grable said:
While I'm not belittling the Vomit exercises, since so many great players endorse them, the act of sliding into notes bothers me. Maybe I'm too square, but I've always considered it "cheating." I've always looked down or at least askance at players who slide around in the thumb position rather than fingering the notes cleanly. I am, however, amazed at how you can hardly hear the gliss as the man in the clip bows the scales.
Click to expand...

The exercise isn't really intended to demonstrate how to approach higher notes in every setting, but rather to reinforce where those notes are in relation to lower notes, and how much to shift to hit those notes. And it is a great warmup. I rarely practice without doing shifting drills/vomits.
 
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#14
gerry grable said:
I don't get the "Yes the third finger(s)" below the octave that you insert in the above detailed explanation. I'm 99% Simandl myself! Are you just doing it to toughen your callous? While I'm not belittling the Vomit exercises, since so many great players endorse them, the act of sliding into notes bothers me. Maybe I'm too square, but I've always considered it "cheating." I've always looked down or at least askance at players who slide around in the thumb position rather than fingering the notes cleanly. I am, however, amazed at how you can hardly hear the gliss as the man in the clip bows the scales.
Click to expand...

I also do not use third finger below the G octave. It's a ongoing debate between bass professors like Bradetich, Dr. Morton and old school Simandl followers (like Hein van de Geyn). It also depends on the swinging length of your bass I think. I have a swinging length (mensur) of 107.5 cm (42.3 '') which makes it physically impossible to use the third finger without shifting in the block position like Bradetich is doing.
 
#16
jheise said:
As others said before, the vomit exercise for bass is from Gary Karr. His own words: the main purpose for the 3rd finger during vomit in the first octave is to strengthen it. Also, it's primarily a bowing exercise, the fingering is actually less important than your focus on the bow.
Click to expand...

Now that makes more sense to me. Thanks jheise and TonyD. I can't wait to get my upright back from the shop and try this stuff out. It doesn't work too well on my jazz bass or my fretless Ibanez :)
 
#17
gerry grable said:
I don't get the "Yes the third finger(s)" below the octave that you insert in the above detailed explanation. I'm 99% Simandl myself! Are you just doing it to toughen your callous? . . . . Maybe I'm too square, but I've always considered it "cheating."
Click to expand...
As a kid -- as a beginner beginner -- through the sheer luck started playing DB via "The Karr Method." One key point of The Karr Method is, "Be able to use every healthy tool you can to get the music out of the bass." Leverage, digits, bow-hair . . . every healthy tool, including some which are overlooked or omitted in some other approaches.

The Karr Method encourages us to be able to use the third finger whenever we need to in order to get the music out of the bass. Although I am the poorest imaginable exemplar of Gary Karr's techniques, I use my third finger fairly often as low as, say, D-Eb-E-F on the G string. Sometimes even lower -- I can't imagine how to play the first phrase of Scrapple without a four-note setup with first-finger G on the D string.

The strength of Simandl is that you don't move on until you've nailed where you're at. You are not going to play 2nd position until you are completely in tune and at home in 1st position, etc. A lot of people become great players based on that approach. If I had learned that way I might play more in tune.

But the philosophy behind The Karr Method is, "On day one, move all over the bass. See what works easily for you and develop it. See what comes with difficulty for you and address it." Learning Simandl, it's easy for students to feel, "Wow, 4th position. This must be harder and more advanced than 1st position or else Simandl would not have me learn it later." For a lot of folks that's just not true, and 1st position is a lot harder than, say, 5th position. The Karr Method erases the assumption and it is very deeply liberating. And of course, it's fun, because it's The Karr Method and Gary makes things fun.

I hope this helps.
 
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