What is a Sleeper bass really...

[bigjames]

I wasn't sure about posting these in the other sleeper thread because there aren't any mods that I know of, but I ordered this bass, and then the guitar a few days later, based on hearing somewhere about how good Samick instruments can be. I got both of these delivered for just a hair over $600, and they are both incredible playing and sounding instruments.

I think maybe 2 years ago the Cirrus might have been considered a sleeper but seeing the current used market makes me think the cat's out of the bag. In any event, I couldn't pass up the chance to have two kind of matching, over the top obnoxious late 80's / early 90's instruments and I am a much happier man for it.
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I was reading through this thread and immediately thought of the first bass I actually owned (I started on a borrowed bass). My parents bought me a Samick for $500 CAD maybe...natural wood finish, neck-thru construction, ebony fretboard, passive PJ electronics (as I recall), and insanely playable, low action. It looked and played light a $1500 bass. It is one of the only instruments I regret getting rid of just because of how good it looked, played, and sounded for such a low price point.

 

[Riff Ranger]

I just interpreted it as a bass that punches above its expected weight. Maybe a parts bass or a pawn shop hack job that brings the thunder once it gets plugged in.

A sleeper means something that's underestimated, generally.

sleeper: something that achieves sudden unexpected success after initially attracting little attention, typically one that proves popular without much promotion or expenditure.

I'd lean towards the definition of a "sleeper" bass being something cosmetically unattractive or non-functionally damaged that sports quality hardware and electronics...something ugly that performs exquisitely. I don't think the price or brand of such a thing matters much. An inexpensive bass brand that is underrated is a good bass brand that punches above its weight, price-wise. A sleeper would be a bass that looks as if it was used to hammer nails, but has a neck straight as an arrow, killer sound and playability. I could be wrong.

These all come closer to my understanding of the term, especially the bit about things that absolutely slay but somehow never caught on. In that spirit, and in addition to some of the basses already mentioned, I would add the Ibanez ATKs. Sure, they made and sold more than a few—they’re Ibanez, after all—but despite almost universal praise for the sounds they get and the build quality for the price, they’ve not consistently stayed in production (unlike the mainstay SR/Soundgear and BTB lines).

I think stock Ibanez MiKros deserve an honorable mention; while they seem to sell well and likely won’t go out of production any time soon, I think a lot of players look at them as toys—until they play them. They’re put together well and sound great; they’re good basses, period, but ridiculously good for their cost. As long as they continue to surprise, that makes them sleepers in a sense.

BUT …

 

[Riff Ranger]

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… this is still the best answer

 

[Discount Bassy]

This is a sleeper.

 

[Killing Floor]

My favorite NFL team has a sleeper offensive line. Am I using the word correctly?

 

[Rib 13]

I interpret a sleeper as something that takes a long time to be appreciated, usually way after its production run................Peavey T Series guitars and basses should have their picture in the Music Instrument dictionary for the Sleeper term........

 

[juggahnaught]

I don't think it really exists in the world of bass guitars.

For cars, it makes sense. There's a performance aspect that is measurable - generally speed and horsepower. There's also the fact that some cars are specifically built for speed while others are built for utilitarian uses.

For basses....not so much. Basses are instruments. They're all designed to do the same thing - make music. In my opinion, there isn't really a performance aspect to basses as there is for cars - we measure a "sleeper" by performance, which we base on speed, which is inherent to all cars. With bass, there's not really anything objective to measure - you can definitively say that Engine A produces more horsepower than Englne B, or that Car A can reach a nigher top speed than Car B. But with a bass? We don't measure pickup output or volume. "It sounds better" isn't objective. "Tone" is anything but objective. "Playability" is defined differently by every player.

Furthermore, you can declare a car a "sleeper" when the objective measures for comparing cars like speed and horsepower are not the primary design goals of the car, and yet it rivals and/or surpasses other cars that did prioritize those objective measures as design goals when it happens to be used for that purpose. But with a bass? The design goals always try to take the subjective primary measures in mind ("good instrument, plays well"). And the instrument is always used for that purpose. (If the object in question was primarily designed to drive nails into wood, but also happened to be a really great instrument, that would be a sleeper.)

As such, I don't think that "sleepers" really exist in this case. Not objectively.

Amplifiers? Speaker cabinets? Sure. There's a measurable output for both, and both amplifiers and speaker cabinets have specific design goals in mind (and often tradeoffs to meet those goals). A cabinet that is a sleeper might be quite loud in dB for its size and driver configuration despite its priority being small size and low weight, possibly rivaling other offerings where loudness was a primary design goal and size and weight were secondary considerations (meaning larger and heavier). Basses don't do this because they don't have an objective primary output statistic like amplifiers and cabinets do.

 

[bassbrad]

In the car world a sleeper is a stock, boring or mundane car that is a speed demon or has extra features or quality you would not expect. In my mind a sleeper bass is the same.

My sleeper bass is my #2 Carvin LB50 Koa bass 'Toney' that is rather drab looking as far as an exotic wood bass can be. The performance surprise is in the electronics. The front pickup is an EMG HB and the back pickup is either an 80 or 81 with a custom "passive" wiring scheme. The bass is dead quiet, has the perfect P tone and with the other pickup a huge pallet of tones on tap. It is a bass that I use very often for recording and for playing live.

 

[BobKos]

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This is a sleeper.

THIS is the correct answer!

 

[TTA]

I didn't want to send the other guy's thread off on a tangent. I always thought part of what makes a sleeper is low price compared to build quality. For me, that was Kramer. The Focus 7000's(MIJ) up until very recently could be had under $300 for a clean one. The Kramer Pioneers(MIA) were the same but usually closer to $400. Both were insane quality for those price points. Peavey T-40's I know less about but I think they used to be considered sleepers. Now, any not abused T-40 seems north of $1k. To me, that kind of goes against sleeper status. You can get a lot of really good used basses in the $1,000-$1,200 range, so at that point the T-40 is just a bass. If that's what you want then great but at that price point it's of reasonably expected quality. Same for my beloved Kramers, I think they are still in sleeper range, but prices are creeping up. If a Focus were going for $1,000, it would still be a quality bass, but it wouldn't be anything special at that price. So in my opinion no longer a sleeper. Just curious if others view it this way, or if sleeper simply means just lesser known but good quality.

I think of sleepers in the car sense. Think of a wagon with a v10… or a hatchback with 350hp. Vs a red Ferrari that screams sports car.

I guess the equivalent of that would be a dude at a metal show with a standard looking p bass that just rocks a killer and unexpected overdriven tone.

But your scenario is probably a better one.

 

[2F/2F]

"Sleeper" comes from the hot rod world. It means a vehicle that looks stock or run-of-the-mill, but is actually a high performance vehicle.

A sleeper can be summed up as: "All go and no show."

It serves four main purposes: 1) It surprises [ignorant] competitors, 2) It doesn't attract unwanted attention, 3) It can save money, 4) It conveys a certain style and attitude.

A well built and/or high performing bass that isn't obviously so would be the equivalent. "Bang for the buck" is only one element of sleeperdom, and not the most important one. The main element is high performance disguised by plain aesthetics.

It also implies something that was user modified to be what it is.

A black or white Squier Affinity with a de-badged Duncan pickup, stock looking Hipshot bridge and tuners, high quality pots, a hand-cut nut, and a stainless steel re-fret is a sleeper.

A well made bass that doesn't sell for much is not, in and of itself.

 

[juancaminos]

In the car world a sleeper looks stock or close to it but has a fire breathing drive train hidden under all of that stock looking metal.

With that said I have basses that appear stock but nothing on them is stock except the bare body.

 

[Killing Floor]

There’s a Fender Prophecy on the Verb today. That’s a pretty darn cool bass that never caught on.

 

[TyBo]

One of my brothers used to have a used Toyota Corona, back when those were relatively new to the world. Bored out engine. "Pocket rocket". That thing was a sleeper!

 

[GretschWretch]

A sleeper bass is one, usually played by me, that causes people to nod off.

 

[Nuage420]

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This is a sleeper.

And the reason I used to have trust issues driving my built evo...

 

[Herrick]

According to the Bass Player's Guide To Big Big Tone...
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I recognize those red sheets and that red thing on the bass. My old battered memory associated these images with a Reverend bass. What happened to your Reverend? What is this new bass and has it replaced the Reverend? And if you're not the dude with the Reverend bass then disregard.

 

[jd56hawk]

I recognize those red sheets and that red thing on the bass. My old battered memory associated these images with a Reverend bass. What happened to your Reverend? What is this new bass and has it replaced the Reverend? And if you're not the dude with the Reverend bass then disregard.

Replaced this...

...with this.

 

[HubbardsFate]

I was reading through this thread and immediately thought of the first bass I actually owned (I started on a borrowed bass). My parents bought me a Samick for $500 CAD maybe...natural wood finish, neck-thru construction, ebony fretboard, passive PJ electronics (as I recall), and insanely playable, low action. It looked and played light a $1500 bass. It is one of the only instruments I regret getting rid of just because of how good it looked, played, and sounded for such a low price point.

Do you recall which model of Samick exactly? Was it one of the Greg Bennett Design ones?

 

[Mrtoodamnsabre]

So when I was a teenager I saw musicman sabres going for 800 dollars, pre ernie ones too, any Sabre of any year 800 bucks sometimes a little more or a little less. Since musicman heads don’t really like the sound of them a lot of people on the forums really didn’t care to spend or sell them for much.

I remember passing on a Sabre as a cheaper option and buying a brand new 3eq stingray! And the Sabre had by a lot a sound that was more of what I was into, especially when you pick above the neck pickup, most demos of the Sabre I think were done by longtime
Musicman fans and I think it was actually a huge miss because every demo had someone playing above the bridge pickup. That bass has deeper lows than anything and it used to be you could get them for half the price of a new stingray. Both the classic and pre eb one have deeper lows than the stingray hh for whatever reason.


On another note Even as a teenager I knew the reverends were gonna be a hit one day, that design is too good