What is a Sleeper bass really...

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I didn't want to send the other guy's thread off on a tangent. I always thought part of what makes a sleeper is low price compared to build quality. For me, that was Kramer. The Focus 7000's(MIJ) up until very recently could be had under $300 for a clean one. The Kramer Pioneers(MIA) were the same but usually closer to $400. Both were insane quality for those price points. Peavey T-40's I know less about but I think they used to be considered sleepers. Now, any not abused T-40 seems north of $1k. To me, that kind of goes against sleeper status. You can get a lot of really good used basses in the $1,000-$1,200 range, so at that point the T-40 is just a bass. If that's what you want then great but at that price point it's of reasonably expected quality. Same for my beloved Kramers, I think they are still in sleeper range, but prices are creeping up. If a Focus were going for $1,000, it would still be a quality bass, but it wouldn't be anything special at that price. So in my opinion no longer a sleeper. Just curious if others view it this way, or if sleeper simply means just lesser known but good quality.

Isn't a "sleeper" something you should sleep on before buying?

Or, a "you snooze you lose" kind of deal?

Those are the only two things I can think of that would make any sort of sense. I've only ever heard that term once. It was on here. And it made no sense.

 

[brianrost]

To me sleeper is any high quality bass that sells used for less than 50% of what it sold for new. Different basses go in and out of sleeper status as they go in and out of favor with players.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

Grumpy's Toy was a sleeper to Sox & Martin, to their eternal regret.

 

[dalkowski]

Hello, other guy here. When I think sleeper, coming from a very heavy automotive background, it is something that yes is underestimated and punches way above its weight.

 

[el murdoque]

I'd also say that for a bass to qualify for the sleeper term, you would have to use a base model where it is common knowledge that it is not very good.

If you took that bass, and then rip off the fingerboard, route a few channels to add carbon beams, put the board back on, swap the bridge for something nice and then give the neck a PLEK, then gutted the electronics and put high class pickups in the housings of the old ones, plus add a boutique preamp (if you're into active).
This bass would literally look the same with a new bridge. The action would probably come much lower than before and the electric sound would be much better.

The problem with the sleeper term that I can see is twofold:
1) Instruments generally don't run like that. There is much less difference between a Fender Custom Shop Jazz and a Squier Affinity than there is between the stock model of a car and the decked out sport version that costs ten times as much. You could gig with a Squier in the place where you usually bring your CS and if people noticed at all, the gig would still work.
If you show up with a stock car to a race, well . . .
2) The performance of a bass is mainly located in two spots: How good it is playable and how good it sounds.
The first bit can only be noticed by those who acutally play it. The second bit depends on whether or not you're playing direct. If you use pedals and/or an amp, the sound you create comes only partly from the bass.

 

[mongo2]

To me a "sleeper" is an item that doesn't look the part but it unexpectedly blows the doors off of similar items.

 

[2112]

Remember the Dodge Omni GLHS? Pepperidge Farm remembers...

And so does Camaro, Corvette, Trans Am, and Mustang...

 

[Thorsoundcore]

I've heard of the old Ibanez roadstar P's described as "sleepers", and even after reading this entire thread I feel those basses still fit the description. The look like they could be any old boring P or P/J style bass, but upon watching a few demos you may be surprised to hear they're tone monsters compared to a standard Fender P.

Build quality appears to be great bang for the buck too, though I should mention the prices on these basses have skyrocketed as well. So maybe they're not considered "sleepers" so much anymore.

 

[deff]

Schecter Stiletto: Relatively inexpensive bass, with 24 frets, decent active electronics, and a build quality that far surpasses a huge swathe of basses that cost nearly double.
Peavey Cirrus: The ultimate sleeper bass, one of the best sounding and playing basses ever. I don't care how much your fancy boutique bass cost, it is more than likely a Cirrus would decimate it.
Mentioned before, the Peavey Foundation, better than most dirt cheap basses ever had a right to be.

 

[Lammchop93]

First Gen Fender Road Worn 50's P bass. Definitely a sleeper imho. Best $600 I ever spent on a used bass. So far I've used it to record 4 albums and it still has the same flats that came on it.

those early road worns are awesome!! super lightweight too

 

[halcyo]

My Peavey TL-5 (ver 2) is a sleeper, as far as price goes. USA made, neck through, ebony board, same electronics as the Cirrus (I think). See em go for under $600 often. Snagged mine for $350! Build quality like a $2k+ instrument, great tone with a punchy, growly character!

 

[fhm555]

Since music is not a competition i can’t see how “sleeper” would apply to instruments. In my world a sleeper was a 750 K model with an RC Engineering 836 Cobra kit installed. To the casual observer it was just another Honda CB 750 but to a fellow street racer, the two side draft Webbers, 4 into 2 headers, extended swingarm, and drive chain cage were clues to its true purpose. Once it was cranked, the lope at idle removed all doubt.

 

[BobDeRosa]

Should sleeper be based on build quality or sound/playability quality? My sleeper is a Yamaha BB350, with very good but not excellent build quality. But what a dynamo! P-bass body with Jazz pickups. Not elegant in any way, but it's the lightest bass I own and the sound quality/playability component is off the charts. Paid $219 for it.

 

[Benj-jammin]

Some of you may not agree with this one, but back in the late 70's, I became a big Kramer fan, especially the DMZ models with the fancy woods, aluminum/wood neck structure combo, etc. You know the ones. In the mid-80's, when the Steinberger became popular, Kramer put out the headless Duke model. Tried one out in the store, and I really loved the punch of this little beast. Very simple - 1 pup, volume/tone. Put some Roto 66's on, pumped it though my Acoustic rig, and it really cut through the mix. Don't have it now, but good memories back in the 80's.

 

[H K]

Personally, I've been surprised by many basses over the years. And I think everyone can agree that squier CVs punch above their price, atleast up until recently.

 

[timendous]

I didn't want to send the other guy's thread off on a tangent. I always thought part of what makes a sleeper is low price compared to build quality. For me, that was Kramer. The Focus 7000's(MIJ) up until very recently could be had under $300 for a clean one. The Kramer Pioneers(MIA) were the same but usually closer to $400. Both were insane quality for those price points. Peavey T-40's I know less about but I think they used to be considered sleepers. Now, any not abused T-40 seems north of $1k. To me, that kind of goes against sleeper status. You can get a lot of really good used basses in the $1,000-$1,200 range, so at that point the T-40 is just a bass. If that's what you want then great but at that price point it's of reasonably expected quality. Same for my beloved Kramers, I think they are still in sleeper range, but prices are creeping up. If a Focus were going for $1,000, it would still be a quality bass, but it wouldn't be anything special at that price. So in my opinion no longer a sleeper. Just curious if others view it this way, or if sleeper simply means just lesser known but good quality.

It's crazy that you specifically mentioned the MIJ Kramer Focus 7000. Just a few weeks ago, I actually had mine up for sale in the classifieds and locally for $400 and didn't get a single inquiry. I ended up removing the listing because I felt uncomfortable dropping the price any further. I just couldn't justify it, it's such a nice bass.

 

[Jack Butler]

OP here. Thanks for all the great discussion, opened my eyes to several things. Definitely agree on the Schecter. The Cirrus I guess to me was definitely sleeper, but now the original ones are in a price range that, to me, makes excellent performance and build quality in line with expectations.

Schecter Stiletto: Relatively inexpensive bass, with 24 frets, decent active electronics, and a build quality that far surpasses a huge swathe of basses that cost nearly double.
Peavey Cirrus: The ultimate sleeper bass, one of the best sounding and playing basses ever. I don't care how much your fancy boutique bass cost, it is more than likely a Cirrus would decimate it.
Mentioned before, the Peavey Foundation, better than most dirt cheap basses ever had a right to be.

 

[Jack Butler]

It's crazy that you specifically mentioned the MIJ Kramer Focus 7000. Just a few weeks ago, I actually had mine up for sale in the classifieds and locally for $400 and didn't get a single inquiry. I ended up removing the listing because I felt uncomfortable dropping the price any further. I just couldn't justify it, it's such a nice bass.

Yeah, I assumed you sold it actually. Since I now have 2 Pioneers, it was hard for me to justify picking up your Focus, but I definitely saw it Great bass for that amount of $$.

 

[JRA]

I always thought part of what makes a sleeper is low price compared to build quality.

A sleeper means something that's underestimated

"Bang for the buck" is only one element of sleeperdom, and not the most important one. The main element is high performance disguised by plain aesthetics.

a "sleeper" is an item that doesn't look the part but it unexpectedly blows the doors off of similar items

also, IME: it's typically an individual item, not a 'class' of items, although i think there are plenty of exceptions to that idea, too.

 

[enormungus]

I feel like we're over analyzing what was intended to be a fun topic to see what hidden mods people have done to their basses as well as to shine light on stock "hidden gem" basses. Still, this has been a fun discussion so far, so I'll carry on:

I'll have to disagree with those who say that an item can't be considered a sleeper because we don't have hard numbers like HP, speed and handling G's to measure. I didn't need to know the HP numbers to be caught off guard when my buddy floors it in his built but stock appearing Miata much like I don't need numbers to be caught off guard by the excellent sound/feel of a bass I expected to sound/feel mediocre at best.

Even though it can't be measured on paper, I think the factors we take into account in a bass is the playability, fit/finish and of course sound/tone. A bass with a headstock that aims straight for the ground, razor frets, dull pickups and scratchy pots that go from 0 to 100 with just a quarter turn and doesn't hold a setup for 5mins doesn't need measurable numbers for someone to conclude that it's an underwhelming bass. But, take a bass that's known for those underwhelming features and upgrade all the bad issues to an awesome sounding/feeling state while maintaining a factory appearance, and you'll have a bass sure to surprise anyone.
Or you happen upon a random First Act bass from Walmart that gives your boutique bass a run for its money and you could call that a (insane) sleeper in stock form as well.