Double Bass What is best 2nd instrument to learn????

[Don Kasper]

I strongly disagree with the notion of being able to read a guitar players left hand. What if there isn't a guitar player on the gig? Or the guitar player is playing a rootless voicing or some voicing where they aren't playing the root? For me, I'd rather someone had their ears together so they can hear what the changes are or hear what harmony is implied from the melody. In my experience sitting at the piano playing chords and progressions and singing stuff really helped me get that together and I can't play anything on the guitar.

Strongly Agree.
This is solid advice.

 

[Gio Orfitinho]

Drums, to better understand rhythm. Then piano.

 

[shwashwa]

All gigging bass players should be able to look over at the piano player and be able to understand the chords they are playing, or you'll spend a frustrating lifetime dealing with ignorant piano players who have piss poor communication skills..

 

[damonsmith]

I think the reading guitar player hands is only useful for rock and pop, so in general there will be a guitar. I think being more and more proficient at the bass and playing a ton will still be best for most people. You won't run out of things to play. While a chordal instrument is useful, it most likely isn't worth taking time off working on the bass. If you are able to spend a lot of time on music, working on a chordal instrument will be very useful.
I would say that if you are able to do at least a solid hour daily on the bass, it could be worth it. Any less and it is likely a distraction from the real work you need to be doing.
In short: the silver bullet isn't piano skills, it is practicing the bass.

I strongly disagree with the notion of being able to read a guitar players left hand. What if there isn't a guitar player on the gig? Or the guitar player is playing a rootless voicing or some voicing where they aren't playing the root? For me, I'd rather someone had their ears together so they can hear what the changes are or hear what harmony is implied from the melody. In my experience sitting at the piano playing chords and progressions and singing stuff really helped me get that together and I can't play anything on the guitar.

 

[Wasnex]

I think the reading guitar player hands is only useful for rock and pop, so in general there will be a guitar. I think being more and more proficient at the bass and playing a ton will still be best for most people. You won't run out of things to play. While a chordal instrument is useful, it most likely isn't worth taking time off working on the bass. If you are able to spend a lot of time on music, working on a chordal instrument will be very useful.
I would say that if you are able to do at least a solid hour daily on the bass, it could be worth it. Any less and it is likely a distraction from the real work you need to be doing.
In short: the silver bullet isn't piano skills, it is practicing the bass.

IMHO practicing bass gives you better technical mastery of the instrument. But at some point you may develop more technical skill on the instrument than you actually need. Of course this depends upon what sort of bassist you are. Perhaps a symphonic bassist can never become too technically proficient, especially one who aspires to be a featured soloist.

Learning piano on the other hand provides an excellent conduit to gain a deeper understanding of the inner workings of music. So when I say learn piano, I am not suggesting that you pursue it on a technical level like you would as a concert pianist. I am suggesting you gain enough technical mastery of the instrument so you can use it as a tool to gain a deeper understanding of music theory. Perhaps for a classical musician the piano would hold less value. Many of the legit players I know have pretty much flushed most of the theory they learned in college. But for a commercial musician who improvises, arranges music, or writes new material, I think study of the piano is invaluable. To me piano and the study of music theory go hand in hand.

Back when I was still growing as a musician I spent many hours a week practicing bass in addition to participating in various rehearsals. I also spent a fair amount of time on piano expanding my grasp of music theory. I don't think this is a distraction. The whole idea is to learn the same material in different ways. Basically you wire several neuron paths around the same idea, so your have better recall and a deeper understanding of the subject. It's one thing to know how to spell a D7 chord in all of it's inversions. It's entirely another thing to know how a D7 in all it's inversions sounds. So piano helps with theory and also ear training.

 

[Don Kasper]

To me piano and the study of music theory go hand in hand.

Yes. Needed to be said.
Thank You, Wasnex.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

As I enter the last decade or so of my professional career (it goes by so quickly!) I think about the idea of regrets and backseat quarterbacking; basically the time honored game of "what if?" that we humans seem to be genetically prone to. What if I had found the double bass before age 35? How much more progress would I have been able to make, and how much more advanced a player would I be now?

The problem with this, of course, is that the decades spent studying and playing both guitar and piano professionally are all part of the equation because musical understanding is cumulative. And I can say without much doubt that those decades on those two instruments inform everything that happens every time I play a double bass, so the italic question above is rendered moot before it has a chance to be considered as meaningful.

To the specific question in the OP, I voted Piano. Guitar can no doubt help with harmonic understanding, but it is not visual in the same way, and the limitations of its tuning system led to holes in my concept of harmonic spacing and voicing that only got filled in when I spent more time at the piano. When I retire, I hope to get back to spending more time at the piano again.

 

[Humbled]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. (I don't work for GC or any other MI concern). The old FP1 has the most realistic piano action you'll find on an electric keyboard for anything less than ten times this price. The built-in sounds are very limited but it makes a great synth driver if you need more. What goes wrong with them is broken hammers (from the pic this FP1 may have at least one) which can be fixed easily with gorilla glue, super glue, or bought online per each or bag of several. It's heavy for a 88-key electric by most modern standards, but it has a small (living room volume) built-in amplifier with both speaker outputs and line outputs. Every musician needs a piano IMHO, and here's the way it's done without spending a lot or maintaining an acoustic piano, especially if you can find a FP1 that still has the bolt-on legs with built-in speakers. That's my suggestion, FWIW.

 

[knirirr]

Guitar can no doubt help with harmonic understanding, but it is not visual in the same way, and the limitations of its tuning system led to holes in my concept of harmonic spacing and voicing that only got filled in when I spent more time at the piano.

Oddly, I found quite the opposite. I was very confused when taught the piano at school, and it was not until I was able to buy a cheap electric guitar and start studying it (aged ~18-19) that things started to make sense. As already mentioned by someone earlier in this thread, tuning EADGCF would improve things considerably (I wish I'd heard of this long ago) and I look forward to doing so when/if I get any time free - studying bass must come first.
Of course, I am merely an intermediate amateur, YMMV etc.

 

[damonsmith]

Some great points here. If someone is a music student at the college level, they learn piano and I think that is obviously great. They don't ask the internet - it is part of their curriculum.
I think the advice here isn't for full time music students or even full time musicians.
A bird watcher doesn't need to be a bird to identify birds. If the chords are in the air, at some level it doesn't matter who is playing them. If you play tunes with people and have a chord chart and any sort of ear, you end up knowing what the chords sound like.
It takes a lot of work to get good bass lines going that are in time and in tune, dealing with the root movement, fifths, leading tones and chromatics. My suspicion here is that we primarily speaking to bassists who are not doing that at a very high level thinking piano is the answer and I just don't think it is.
To your point, if you want to be a "featured soloist" you are probably going to need both the virtuosity and the piano skills - the upper harmony is going to be far more important to your work.
If not, you are far better off getting the root movement solid and in tune.

IMHO practicing bass gives you better technical mastery of the instrument. But at some point you may develop more technical skill on the instrument than you actually need. Of course this depends upon what sort of bassist you are. Perhaps a symphonic bassist can never become too technically proficient, especially one who aspires to be a featured soloist.

Learning piano on the other hand provides an excellent conduit to gain a deeper understanding of the inner workings of music. So when I say learn piano, I am not suggesting that you pursue it on a technical level like you would as a concert pianist. I am suggesting you gain enough technical mastery of the instrument so you can use it as a tool to gain a deeper understanding of music theory. Perhaps for a classical musician the piano would hold less value. Many of the legit players I know have pretty much flushed most of the theory they learned in college. But for a commercial musician who improvises, arranges music, or writes new material, I think study of the piano is invaluable. To me piano and the study of music theory go hand in hand.

Back when I was still growing as a musician I spent many hours a week practicing bass in addition to participating in various rehearsals. I also spent a fair amount of time on piano expanding my grasp of music theory. I don't think this is a distraction. The whole idea is to learn the same material in different ways. Basically you wire several neuron paths around the same idea, so your have better recall and a deeper understanding of the subject. It's one thing to know how to spell a D7 chord in all of it's inversions. It's entirely another thing to know how a D7 in all it's inversions sounds. So piano helps with theory and also ear training.

 

[Wasnex]

Some great points here. If someone is a music student at the college level, they learn piano and I think that is obviously great. They don't ask the internet - it is part of their curriculum.
I think the advice here isn't for full time music students or even full time musicians.
A bird watcher doesn't need to be a bird to identify birds. If the chords are in the air, at some level it doesn't matter who is playing them. If you play tunes with people and have a chord chart and any sort of ear, you end up knowing what the chords sound like.
It takes a lot of work to get good bass lines going that are in time and in tune, dealing with the root movement, fifths, leading tones and chromatics. My suspicion here is that we primarily speaking to bassists who are not doing that at a very high level thinking piano is the answer and I just don't think it is.
To your point, if you want to be a "featured soloist" you are probably going to need both the virtuosity and the piano skills - the upper harmony is going to be far more important to your work.
If not, you are far better off getting the root movement solid and in tune.

A big difference between piano and guitar, is piano allows you to play chord inversions and smooth voice leading relatively easily. It's also much easier to visualize the chords and voice leading on piano. To me this makes a huge distinction in how you hear things. Guitar tends to result in a lot of parallel voice leading unless you are really, really good. From what I have observed, you have to plan out what your are doing in order to achieve relatively smooth voice leading on guitar.

To me the biggest advantage guitar has over piano is convenience/portability.

For the record I currently own a guitar and have not owned a keyboard for years. I am also often frequently frustrated by the inherent limitations and challenges of the guitar. IMHO the piano opens up a far wider horizon of harmonic possibilities than guitar, and also gives you a much more clear, direct, and linear visual process for understanding any concepts you are studying.

I find the tuning of the guitar both a blessing and a curse. I use standard guitar tuning and my primary BG is a 6-string tuned in 4ths. When I play guitar more it tends to reduce my reliance on finger patterns on bass, so my soloing becomes less mechanical.

However I have struggled to truly memorize the guitar fretboard and I find playing guitar confounds my conscious knowledge of my bass's fretboard. My conscious mind can't really seem to keep the two instruments separate. My fingers don't seem to have as much trouble though, as I seem to be able to rely on my ears to play the proper notes.

So I think either instrument can help one become a better bass player. I think guitar has specifically opened up my mind to more melodic ideas by interrupting my normal thought processes so I can play bit a more freely on bass.

But I think piano is far more efficient for ear training and learning music theory. It takes you beyond mere mastery of the bass, and it is unlikely to confound your knowledge of the bass.

 

[Michael Drost]

I was a jazz guitarist first and then became a bassist. My guitar playing informed my bass playing immensely.

For me guitar and music theory came hand in hand.

The bass and jazz guitar have been a great skill set for teaching as well. Super handy, to say the least.

The Open Studio course featuring Christian McBride has a section on piano. He is a great pianist!!

There is no doubt in my mind that piano is the best option. See all of the reasons above. However, the jazz guitar has been a great counterpart to my bass playing.

 

[Don Kasper]

When playing a non-fixed pitch instrument, there is a primary need to observe and participate in the world of "Pitch", first, at a Microscopic level. ("Am I in Tune?")
I always felt that the piano was more like a Telescope, as it helps you navigate the enormous (by comparison) Harmonic Ocean (tm). ("Are My Pitches Inside of, or Outside of, the Harmony?")
Study of Piano/Harmony will awaken and develop the part of the brain that needs to always see the Horizon, which is sometimes neglected as we Microscopically manage "Pitch".
IMFO.
Thanks.

 

[longfinger]

As I enter the last decade or so of my professional career .

The main guy I perform with professionally is currently 85 years old. And he is still working.

 

[Dragonghetti]

I've been messing around on the viola. The cool thing about a viola is it can be played like a miniature bass (in some classical works, the viola often plays an interior bass part. Plus, you get the Bach cello suites in their original fingerings . . .

 

[thabassmon]

IME without a doubt piano.

I play bass of course but I also play guitar and piano. Guitar is easier no doubt but Piano is better.

I have better chops on guitar but piano is such a complete instrument with a range from A0 (whole tone below the Low B of a fiver or sixer) up to a C8.

Best instrument to apply theory concepts when learning new info. Experimenting with chord voicing, voice leading and a whole lot of other things.

Guitar gives you a couple of extra strings (if coming from a 4) and an asymmetrical standard tuning. Only advantage is portability and possibly cost.

Of course this is just my opinion.

 

[reddog]

Uke.

 

[srbbass]

Piano is the Rosetta Stone of music theory

 

[Don Hergert]

Piano is the Rosetta Stone of music theory

Well, no, Theory is the Rosetta Stone of all instruments.

I'd still suggest, and respectfully because I do love piano music, that if the genre or genre group that a person is active with doesn't use piano, it's not the best 2nd instrument for them. Some folks may not want to admit that there are other genre worlds out there that don't follow western classical music "standards", but there definitely are.

And, the best 2nd instrument may not be guitar either. Check the genre.

 

[james condino]

Are you interested in a second instrument for musical theory and application or for real world use on the gig and in life? I've traveled all over the world with a guitar in tow and had magical cultural experiences on boats and trains and busses and on trails 100s of miles off the grid and I've taken them on military deployments that I wouldn't want to send my enemies to. I don't ever want to take a piano to Everest basecamp, but I brought a guitar there and it was incredible.

Piano players are pretty rare around here, regardless of the music genre, and only a couple of venues have one in the house.

In the last 400 gigs, mostly jazz, probably only 6 of them had a keyboard player, but 350 had a guitar player that had a strong primary role. My 45 years of playing and studying guitar were extremely valuable practical application for every one of those. On the 6 with keyboards, we did enjoy wonderful intellectual discourse and banter about harmonic theory and it was very nice not having my ears ringing the whole ride home from standing next to a too loud amplifier ....