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What is it about Fender?

People have the dopiest reasons for the stuff they do...if I thought for 5 seconds that the type of bass you play has anything to do with your individuality as a player, I'd play a different bass. But that really is the dumbest myth in the whole of music that gear says whether you're an individual or not. Dumb dumb dumb, and anyone who believes it is dumb, too.
 
Period? I don't think so. I'm as big a Fender-hater as anybody (but do own two (MIM J & Squier P) and I totally agree with the GNL thing (own three!). BUT

Since I'm also a drumber, I get a chance to go to a lot of drumb clinics (I don't know why there don't seem to be nearly as many bass clinics?) And there you have an array of drums made by various manufacturers across the stage and you get to hear them one against the other live and in living color. Among drums DW has a rep like Fender. Expensive. Lots of marketing hype, and everybody wants them. And as much as that kind of idea sits in my craw, you can hear why right on stage. Those Darn DW drum very clearly HAVE SOMETHING that sets their tone apart from many others. And that is part of that reputation. They can do the job.

And that's what you hear here about Fender. People (me too!) recognize that there is SOMETHING about those original design Fenders that sets the tone apart. They do the job! So it's little wonder that Fender has been so reluctant to change the "magic formula" over the years. Of course the name on the headstock thing helps too. If your daddy went on and on about a Fender bass you may have a bit of the headstock thing. But if it didn't have that certain indefinable "SOMETHING", I don't think history alone is enough to do it. There are lots of basses in the dustbin of history.

Please tell me "drumb" is intentional ;)
That aside, I'm not sure your drum analogy works here. DW is a new comer to the drum world, relatively speaking. DW certainly didn’t play any role in inventing the modern drum kit. Ludwig would be more appropriate, as would Slingerland, Gretsch, and even Premier or Sonar if we look beyond the US market. Even if none of these companies remains as dominant today in the drum market as Fender is in the electric bass and guitar markets, all of these companies were involved in the early manufacture and sale of what would become the modern drum kit. The reason is that drums aren't as easy to patent or trademark since the basic format of a head stretched over a cylinder evolved over centuries. The drum kit concept itself originated from numerous DIY efforts of combining tradition percussion instruments normally played by several percussionists into an arrangement that one percussionist might play. The first bass drum pedals -which were a critical component of this integration, were seen in the late 1800’s, and the first patents date to around 1900. Those originating companies are also much older than Fender, and patents expire. Honestly, since the introduction of synthetic heads, there hasn’t been any revolutionary innovation in acoustic drum technology. In the last 50 years, the only real significant innovations have been evolutionary- improvements in materials and manufacturing technology, hardware, improved mechanisms, etc. Again, I said acoustic, so excluding electronics / synthesis / sampling / triggering.

Furthermore, there are dozens of brands of drums, which almost any non-drummer would be hard pressed to tell apart without a logo. You see it all the time on Craigslist, with Remo and Evans brand drum kits frequently coming up for sale. These are all low end sets displayed as only a non-drummer would arange them, and the brand listed is just what they saw on the head (Remo does market kits, but Evans does/has not). As for sound differences, sure to a drummer we can hear the difference between kits, but it has less to do with brand than price point / materials / heads / consruction / tuning. So as for which brand would have the most acceptance amongst non-drummers I think you could pretty much show up with just about any well tuned kit, as long as it sounds right for the music, and [DEL]the resonant head on the bass drum doesn’t feature goatsie[/DEL] it doesn’t look in some way objectionable. Assuming you can play, the brand of your kit isn't going to lose you the gig.

Right or wrong, the Fender bass thing is a different animal entirely.
 
People have the dopiest reasons for the stuff they do...if I thought for 5 seconds that the type of bass you play has anything to do with your individuality as a player, I'd play a different bass. But that really is the dumbest myth in the whole of music that gear says whether you're an individual or not. Dumb dumb dumb, and anyone who believes it is dumb, too.

You calling me dumb, Jimmy? :confused::eyebrow::mad::spit:
Oh you mean the Fender-phobic dude, right?! :hyper: Hey at that point I would have played a giant four string penis-bass if it meant I had a gig. That guy had a lot of weird ideas about what it took to sell in the 90's. But then again this was Berekely, CA and standing out for being non-conformist took considerable more effort than it might elsewhere. What can I say, I never had a bad trip and it was fun while it lasted. Dumb as the counter-comformity side of this might be, my point was just to share an example I experienced.

Dunno though, I probably did kill more brain cells than was necessary back then, so perhaps dumb still applies to me :atoz:
 
People have the dopiest reasons for the stuff they do...if I thought for 5 seconds that the type of bass you play has anything to do with your individuality as a player, I'd play a different bass. But that really is the dumbest myth in the whole of music that gear says whether you're an individual or not. Dumb dumb dumb, and anyone who believes it is dumb, too.

Trolleriffic! Okay, I'll bite.

Gear almost always plays SOME part- Chapman sticks, Tony Levin using wood sticks, pedals, yadda yadda. Good lord. Absolutes are for lazy fools who squirm at the discomfort that comes with pondering other possibilities.
 
However, when we got into the studio, the singer / producer couldn’t stand the noise of the Ric, and neither of us was totally satisfied with the sound. So I recorded everything on the Precision and played the Ric live.

I could have written that last part.

I was "dumb" (ala Jimmy's point) about wanting something besides a Fender in my youth, had to have a Ric, which played live okay, absolute flop in the studio. Recorded with the house Precision.

Sold the Ric (don't plan to ever own another), and when got back into playing bass about seven years ago and knew what I wanted and what I didn't. Got a Fender Precision.
 
Somebody already said it: Fender got it right, and every attempt to improve has made one thing better and other things worse. Here are a couple of brief anecdotes about me and my P:

I got a bass gig and tried several basses at rehearsals and dance halls. Everybody in the band thought I sounded OK. Then I got my Classic '50s P, installed a QP and TI Jazz Flats, and took it practice. Two bars into the first song, the whole band turned to look at me and said "THAT'S IT!" A couple of months later, when I took my fretless Jazz to a gig, they sent me home for the P.

I play at church service from time to time. I took one of my Ps and another bass player who LOVES knobs and switches picked it up. "How do you get a good sound with it?" he said. "Plug it in," I replied. I've watched him spend what seemed like hours turning knobs and pushing switches on his boutique basses, and he never sounds as good as when he picks up the P.

Sure, Leo didn't invent it, and many players like other brands, but Fender got there first and we all came up listening to Precision Bass on the radio. That's a lot to overcome. His bass transformed modern music. Go back and listen to the standup bass tracks on the early rock recordings and you'll begin to wonder why they bothered.

And, for what it's worth, I have a Fender P (currently an AV '57) AND an iMac AND a Windows laptop.
 
Furthermore, there are dozens of brands of drums, which almost any non-drummer would be hard pressed to tell apart without a logo. You see it all the time on Craigslist, with Remo and Evans brand drum kits frequently coming up for sale. These are all low end sets displayed as only a non-drummer would arange them, and the brand listed is just what they saw on the head (Remo does market kits, but Evans does/has not). As for sound differences, sure to a drummer we can hear the difference between kits, but it has less to do with brand than price point / materials / heads / construction / tuning. So as for which brand would have the most acceptance amongst non-drummers I think you could pretty much show up with just about any well tuned kit, as long as it sounds right for the music, and [DEL]the resonant head on the bass drum doesn’t feature goatsie[/DEL] it doesn’t look in some way objectionable. Assuming you can play, the brand of your kit isn't going to lose you the gig.

Right or wrong, the Fender bass thing is a different animal entirely.

I think you've GOT the anology I am trying to make. It's not about instrument HISTORY, it's about a certain "quality" that sets a certain maker apart. And you are exactly right. It's NOT about non-drummers telling the difference between kits, it's about subtle differences that many pro drummers perceive which in turn somehow turns into a myth. Which in this case (and I"m sure you are familiar with it) is that if you want a "pro" instrument it has to be DW. Well, of course it isn't strictly true, in fact at first I thought it was totally BS sort of like the same rule about Fenders. Yet over the years I'm saying that through careful listening and comparison, the rule does not seem to be totally myth. Sure maybe non-drummers are hearing by looking at the logo on the bass drum or non-bass players by looking at the headstock. But I'm saying I have heard subtle differences in these instruments that in it's way backs up the myth. It says that if you buy a Fender bass or DW drumset, you are somehow going to have a little bit more insurance that it will do the job than some other choice.

And I've heard stories about people who show up for a TV drum gig where "DW" on the bass drum is viewed in about the same light as a Fender bass headstock shape. Again it's not about history, it's that the myth has gone around that certain brands will easily give you the sound you want, without any hassle.

And for that reason I say the analogy is EXACTLY the same.

And no, I'm not selling my incredible Mapex kit for DW or my Moudus 6 string for a Fender P-bass (does Fender even know that basses can have 6 strings?). But that still doesn't change my opinion that there is a certain quality about those given brands that can be heard in the sound.
 
People have the dopiest reasons for the stuff they do...if I thought for 5 seconds that the type of bass you play has anything to do with your individuality as a player, I'd play a different bass. But that really is the dumbest myth in the whole of music that gear says whether you're an individual or not. Dumb dumb dumb, and anyone who believes it is dumb, too.

This.

Gets the Talk Bass Alliteration Award.

And besides - the post rings true.

Many years ago, there was 'Bass off' contest at my school - one guy had a wicked set up with two Trace Elliot 4x10s a Trace Elliot head and a BBE Sonic Maximizer - his bass of choice? The then new, Kubicki - and he was good.

The winner of the 'Bass off' - a guy who played a White Squier J bass through an old Fender Bassman. The guy's articulation was impeccable and he had the best internal metronome I've ever been witness to.

I finished in 5th place. Or as some others call it - 'Last'. LOL!
 
There may be hate, but there's also 'razzing' of peeps who constantly wank to their P bass... lol. It's all in a day's thread here at Talk bass. Every 5 threads is the same old 'my P bass is awesome, and it does everything, and etc etc' - so, they're given a good razzing for being completely unoriginal, I guess.
 
There was is old adage in business, which stated nobody was ever fired for buying IBM. I think this line of thinking applies pretty well to Fender as well.

Except that at a later stage when IBM in spite of basically dominating the computer biz for years, got their own heads so far up their own butts that you DID get fired for buying IBM! It's hard to "Think", in the dark. :)

In my 20’s, I played with a very talented singer-songwriter who wouldn’t let me bring my Fender P into his house. So I played my Ric and his Gibson with him. He was vehemently anti-Fender to a fault. His issue was that anyone can play a Fender, everybody seemingly does, and if you are truly an artist, you must shed ALL convention. Never mind all the hypocritical traps he routinely fell into, such as that a good portion of the music he listened to and found inspiration from probably included Fender instruments at some point in the recording process.

But when something is first and very good, it develops a reputation. But instrument making like computer building is not a static thing. Time marches on. And at times founders don't march with the times. On the other hand the MYTH of the founding tends to stay around much longer than the actual truth of the myth.

And I have to agree that for a "true" artist tone should be where you find it. Being anti-Fender may be as dumb as being one of the folks here who in later years bought some 4 string Squier P-bass and then sold all their Ritters, Sadowsky's, Moduli etc. and "never looked back". Rules of thumb, may be useful, but I don't think absolute rules serve art.
 
Let me clear something up here...I have no problem if people like something else besides Fenders. I totally get that not everyone likes them. Everyone should get a bass that lets them be what they want to be. But to think that because you won't touch a Fender that you're going to always be a more unique player than another guy with a Fender is absolute hogwash...it really is. Doesn't mean you won't be more unique and creative, but it doesn't mean that you will, either. My basses just sit on a stand until I do something with them. Nothing unique about that ;)
 
Let me clear something up here...I have no problem if people like something else besides Fenders. I totally get that not everyone likes them. Everyone should get a bass that lets them be what they want to be. But to think that because you won't touch a Fender that you're going to always be a more unique player than another guy with a Fender is absolute hogwash...it really is. Doesn't mean you won't be more unique and creative, but it doesn't mean that you will, either. My basses just sit on a stand until I do something with them. Nothing unique about that ;)

Well said. +1
 
It's not Fender basses that I dislike.

It's the loud, obnoxious Fender snobs that keep me away from Fender. I've heard it so many times over the past 34 years that I just can not buy a Fender. "Dude, get a real bass. Real bass players play Fender." Engineers, soundmen, band mates, sales people. It's like a cult :scowl:

I get how ridiculous that is: staying away from a product because of a few fan-boys. But it's my nature- whether it's sports teams, music, TV shows or anything. The minute someone tells me I HAVE to use or play or buy something, my immediate and chronic reaction is to never use, play or buy it.

Same thing with amps. But that's another brand and another forum :hiding:
 
I'm 54 and yes, back in the day, Fenders were everywhere. So....they are iconic.

I played a Precision for a time, long ago, and it was cool but I always lusted for a Jazz. Last year, I got a Jazz and fell hopelessly in love. The feature that stole my heart is the ergonomics. The body just sucks itself to my torso, a slight right leg lift secures the instrument during challenging riffs, the position of the neck-side strap pin controls neck dive and the neck.......oh, the neck. The neck makes many other basses feel like a piece of firewood with strings attached, by comparison. Thin, narrow at the nut and allows proper thumb position for maximum finger-access to the fretboard.

And finally, the tone. Correction: tones. Wide tone range and if I want.....it growls.