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What is your FOH Volume Level?

Jamvan

Jamvan

The Bassist Formerly Known As Meh
Gold Supporting Member
Nov 11, 2014
4,583
20,724
Minnesota
www.bandmix.com
#1
Has anyone booked any gigs in venues/bars that have instituted strict FOH volume limits (eg. 90dB) which they actively measure throughout the night? We played our first one the other night and penalty for non-compliance with the stated policy is a terminated gig (with pro-rated pay) up to, and including, a complete ban from playing the venue in the future. This is uncommon for our area (at least the places we've played) however we've chosen to take the lemons and make lemonade (adjusted set-lists with more acoustic based material) and offer a choice to future venues when we're booking which version of the band they'd prefer to hire but I'm curious if any of you have actually measured your FOH volume levels? I'm not talking stage volume but more specifically how loud/quiet you may be in the location you're playing.

For the record, for us, it was really hard to achieve and maintain an 80dB-90dB FOH volume level all night but the patrons/owner/bar staff loved it.
 
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#3
RoadRanger said:
"A" or "C" weighted? "Fast" or "Slow"? Heck, I've seen the audience talking louder than that :wideyed: :nailbiting:.
Click to expand...

All great questions. Unfortunately, they didn't tell us which scale they were using. I would assume it was A weighted as, I believe that's the primary measurement for hearing loss as well as he was just using his smart phone for measuring and most apps don't provide much choice between different weightings.

But I could be completely off. And you're right, the patrons didn't break a sweat to interact with each other, even dancing right in front of the stage. To give you an idea, here's a scale to provide some perspective on where 90dB falls in your normal daily life.

Noise Average decibels (dB)
30dB - Leaves rustling, soft music, whisper
40dB - Average home noise
60dB - Normal conversation, background music
70dB - Office noise, inside car at 60 mph
75dB - Vacuum cleaner, average radio
90dB - Heavy traffic, window air conditioner, noisy restaurant, power lawn mower
(sounds above 85 dB are harmful)
95dB - Subway, shouted conversation
100dB - Boom box, ATV, motorcycle
105dB - School dance
115dB - Chainsaw, leaf blower, snowmobile
120dB - Sports crowd, rock concert, loud symphony
130dB - Stock car races
140dB - Gun shot, siren at 100 feet
 
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#4
#6
Mainly at private parties at swanky venues. We did a charity auction once where they kept telling us to turn down all night. By the end of the night virtually nothing was in the FOH. No drums whatsoever (and he was already playing with brushes), no guitar, certain lyrics no horns.

At one point the evil lady running the place went up to the sound guy and showed her our sound guy to fuss about volume. He showed her our two main faders turned off.... as in pegged all the way down. Every bit of sound she was hearing came from the stage. She had hired a 6 piece horn band WHICH SHE HAD SEEN PERFORM AT A NIGHT CLUB and wanted us to play elevator music all night.

Miserable night.
 
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#7
Only seen it happen at church (strict levels) and for outdoor gigs where cities have implemented sound "ordinances" due to resident complaints.
Had a cop show up one night at an outdoor gig (before I knew about this) who stood 6 feet in front of us with a meter in his hands.. then walked away.
It was last song of the 2nd set.. He told us we were "fine" and we could continue playing... some local residents (in an ongoing fight w/ the venue) had complained, but we were within ordinance levels... There's generally a venue fine associated with being too loud! He said he was tired of being called out, and only had once where it was too loud.

At church.. it's the mains.. at each worship center (we have 3) the SE has a "C" weighted meter and keeps the house PA at (or below) a mandated 90dB.
 
#8
I have played venues with tight regulations. It set me up for all the small room work I'm now doing.

Here's what is in law in my community (Middleton, Wisconsin):


(5) Issuance of Permit.


(a) The permit application shall be referred to the Police Department and, if the permit involves City owned property, the Public Lands Manager. The Police Department October 2015 Chapter 7 Page 71

may seek input from any other City staff member or Department. If the application is not for a commercial enterprise and meets the standards in this ordinance, the Police Department may issue the permit along with any conditions or limitations necessary to protect the public health, peace, safety and welfare.

(b) If the permit is for a commercial enterprise, the application and recommendation of the Police Department shall be forwarded to the License and Ordinance Committee for approval.

(c) All permits issued shall be subject to the following limitations:

1. On Sunday through Thursday amplified sound shall not exceed 65 decibels on the A – weighted scale at the lot line of the premises for which the permit is issued, from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. and shall not exceed 60 decibels from 9:00 p.m. to midnight.

2. On Friday through Saturday, holidays as established in Section 27.06(1) or the day before such holiday, amplified sound shall not exceed 65 decibels on the A – weighted scale at the lot line of the premises for which the permit is issued from 9:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. and shall not exceed 60 decibels from 11:00 p.m. to midnight.

3. No permit shall be issued for the hours between midnight and 9:00 a.m.

(d) Any person aggrieved by a decision of the Police Department to deny a permit or impose additional conditions or limitations may be appealed to the License and Ordinance Committee. Appeals of any decision of the License and Ordinance Committee shall be heard by the Common Council.

(e) The limitations in paragraph (c) above may not be waived or relaxed except by approval of the Common Council.
 
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#9
Interceptor said:
2. On Friday through Saturday, holidays as established in Section 27.06(1) or the day before such holiday, amplified sound shall not exceed 65 decibels on the A – weighted scale at the lot line of the premises for which the permit is issued from 9:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. and shall not exceed 60 decibels from 11:00 p.m. to midnight.
Click to expand...
Dang... that's about as "loud" as an acoustic guitar with vocals in the middle of a wal-mart parking lot !!!! :banghead:
 
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#12
I'd be curious if they could hear us outside if we're at 85dB inside. I can't imagine trying to play anything other than an unamplified acoustic set outside to achieve 60dB-65dB. That's pretty quiet relatively speaking.
 
#13
There were two venues at the time that were drawing decent crowds when the ordinances were passed. One was routinely getting Friday night crowds in excess of 1,000 patrons in an outdoor beer garden. There were a few upscale condo / apartment buildings that went in after the beer garden became popular. The rest of the story is predictable.

The other venue was smaller, and didn't draw more than 150 on a good night, which was packed there. The owner got crosswise with the city council during the sound level hearings. That went bad.

I played both venues before and after the dB smackdown. It took some adaptation to the feel change.
 
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#14
Well, it isn't very clear what levels were actually required (it seems that options mentioned here range from ridiculously low to reasonable) and I don't live in the states so arguably have limited interest in this discussion, but still my 2 cents would be that assuming the required levels are reasonable, and assuming this becomes a trend - I for one welcome it.

Being 43 now, and having started caring about my hearing only recently, I dearly regret many a night/rehearsal of higher-than-recommended volumes. Hearing loss is very real and you basically can't get almost any of it back. My situation is still relatively good (amateurish tests seem to indicate I hear at a level similar to a 30 year old) but I know many older musicians (and especially drummers) who are almost death.

Audiences often can't choose whether to be in a venue where music is playing. I now carry earplugs everywhere, but most people don't do this. Sparing their hearing is the right thing to do IMO.
 
#15
I played one awful place that had a MINIMUM sound level and insisted on turning us up. We were doing a rock, blues, country, pop mix, bass drums, guitar, flute, two vocals. Tough to blend a flute at stupid rock band levels.

I later played the same place with an acoustic duo. They had a main indoor stage and an outdoor small stage, and we had to crank the acoustic duo up stupid loud to be heard over the bleed from inside. Then tried to stiff us at the end of the night.
 
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#16
With my cheap dB meter on my iPhone, I started measuring our live sound volume just recently...after a some recent gigs where some patrons complained about our volume levels. I've been of the old school of thinking that when it comes to live sound, you can't please everyone, so get out of my face!!!!

But this past Saturday night, I measured dB at head level in the middle of the room (~150 capacity bar/pub/restaurant) and we were 90-95dB. Probably better/more accurate ways to do it, but we were complimented highly by the bar staff with our volume level (and playing, of course!) - and since they've "terminated" a couple of bands recently for being too loud, I'll take that at face value. I've read elsewhere (prosoundweb) that topping out at 100dB is acceptable for a typical show. The higher the SPL, the shorter the time you can be exposed, essentially.

+1 for what ProfFrink says about hearing loss/protection. I'm also at that point where I think it might be too late for me. Too many years of bands, chainsaws and motorcycles.

I'm going to start monitoring volume during rehearsal as well. Seems that rehearsals are worse than live gigs sometimes...bad rooms, amps pointed right in faces, etc.
 
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#18
Jamvan said:
Has anyone booked any gigs in venues/bars that have instituted strict FOH volume limits (eg. 90dB) which they actively measure throughout the night? We played our first one the other night and penalty for non-compliance with the stated policy is a terminated gig (with pro-rated pay) up to, and including, a complete ban from playing the venue in the future. This is uncommon for our area (at least the places we've played) however we've chosen to take the lemons and make lemonade (adjusted set-lists with more acoustic based material) and offer a choice to future venues when we're booking which version of the band they'd prefer to hire but I'm curious if any of you have actually measured your FOH volume levels? I'm not talking stage volume but more specifically how loud/quiet you may be in the location you're playing.

For the record, for us, it was really hard to achieve and maintain an 80dB-90dB FOH volume level all night but the patrons/owner/bar staff loved it.
Click to expand...
From where did they measure the sound level? This is such a crucial detail, why is it always omitted in these threads? From 1 ft away from your mains vs from the back of the house will make a huge difference in how loud you can play. Just as an example, if I measured your stage volume from 100 miles away you could turn it up as loud as possible and not break 90 dB, no matter what weighting. Where was the dB meter/phone that as used to measure your volume?
 
#19
We usually sound check with a high energy song first then a second softer song. We ask if we are too loud. By asking, we get in the good graces of the bar owner usually. We aren't a loud band to begin with unless it is an outdoor gig.
 
#20
100db is pretty loud in a small space.
That is the ceiling we try to achieve.
Bear in mind max spl for many cabs is @130db.
Last place we played the frigging juke box was pumped through ancient PA tops and the volume was so much older than we were, and the patrons ran outside when we were on break it was just stupid. We ceiling at about 98 to 100 mist gigs, often about 95 ish. Mire than loud enough for most venues.
 

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