What key would you say this song is?

[Core Creek]

Ok… Dreams by Fleetwood Mac.

I asked my band and got different answers from everyone. What key would you say the song is in?

 

[tb-player]

C (maybe Am... maybe)

 

[Core Creek]

C

C what? I would say “C” is just a “note”….

 

[tb-player]

C what? I would say “C” is just a “note”….

Good grief. If anyone says the key of C, it's understood that it's C major. Not that hard.

 

[Core Creek]

Good grief. If anyone says the key of C, it's understood that it's C major. Not that hard.

I hear you, but where in the song are we revolving around C? Sure, the notes in a C major scale work, but that ignores the fact that the song is revolving around F and G notes, not C’s.

 

[mambo4]

The chords I googled are consistent with the key of C major: Fmaj7, G, a dash of Am . IV, V, vi.

The tonic C major is not a requirement, even if unusual to have it omitted. You might stretch an argument that it was modal , since it does not seem to resolve to the I.

 

[Core Creek]

The chords I googled are consistent with the key of C major: Fmaj7, G, a dash of Am . IV, V, vi.

The tonic C major is not a requirement, even if unusual to have it omitted. You might stretch an argument that it was modal , since it does not seem to resolve to the I.

That’s how I would see it - F Lydian, since we’re not focusing on C - the tonal center is F (or G Mixolydian).

 

[mambo4]

I could see that. If someone would just say “this song is in the key of c“, and provide no other information,I would also assume that a C cord would show up.

But in cases like these, just tell me what the cords are and I’ll be good. I see no need to ring once hands over what key it actually is.

 

[Core Creek]

The pro

I could see that. If someone would just say “this song is in the key of c“, and provide no other information,I would also assume that a C cord would show up.

But in cases like these, just tell me what the cords are and I’ll be good. I see no need to ring once hands over what key it actually is.

The problem with saying it’s C is the confusion that comes from watching a guitar player play an F major chord. The assumption might be “he must be in F”… and yes, an F chord shows up. But an F major scale wouldn’t work. An F Lydian scale would - sure it has the same notes as a C major scale, but conveying F Lydian indicates the tonal center is F.

 

[tb-player]

I hear you, but where in the song are we revolving around C? Sure, the notes in a C major scale work, but that ignores the fact that the song is revolving around F and G notes, not C’s.

The song has no sharps or flats. That's how the key is determined. The F is the 4 and the G is the 5 in the key of C.

 

[Core Creek]

The song has no sharps or flats. That's how the key is determined. The F is the 4 and the G is the 5 in the key of C.

A minor also has no sharps or flats…? Why not call it that? Do you just reference everything back to the relative major, or I chord?

 

[tb-player]

A k

A minor also has no sharps or flats…?

That is correct. A minor is the relative minor of C major. Either can be used. I hear it as more major than minor, so... C major it is.

The fact that the song never plays the root is what makes it cool. Lots of songs start on the 4 chord. This one just never resolved to the 1.

F Lydian is not a key. It's a scale. Once again, the only way to determine the key is determined by the number of sharps and flats.

 

[mambo4]

The thread just below this one, “ major or relative minor “ contains pages of theory wanking about what truly determines a key, my own included lol. The number of accidentals is an important consideration, but not the only one , at least for some of us.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

The song has no sharps or flats. That's how the key is determined. The F is the 4 and the G is the 5 in the key of C.

Not exactly. The key is determined by what the harmony is actually doing. That could involve a common or garden key as understand in Western functional harmony, or a mode, or some more or less consonant bit of harmony that's not easily definable as either.

There's not really much, if any, C major functionality in "Dreams," so I'd hesitate to call it C major. Nor am I sure what we'd actually get out of calling it that. You could call it F lydian and call it a day.

 

[mambo4]

If I had the notated melody that would be a useful clue

 

[Richard Lindsey]

F Lydian is not a key. It's a scale. Once again, the only way to determine the key is determined by the number of sharps and flats.

That's not really true. F lydian can be the functional equivalent of a key, if it serves as the fundamental organizing principle of a piece. A lot of folk music is like this.

If a tune never gets to its supposed tonic, over the course of what, 4 minuties, you have to ask whether saying it's in a key that it never arrives at is at all meaningful.

 

[Wasnex]

The first sharp is F#. The first flat is Bb.

The song is mostly FMaj7 to G6, and so we don't either F# or Bb.

A minor would typically have G#, but not always.

C major will typically have G7. However, G6 can sub.

There is an A minor chord in the instrumental break. Doesn't sound like a i chord IMHO.

Many people say the melody suggests A minor, but the chords do not.

To my mind the key signature is C major/A natural minor...but it's not necessarily in either key. I think one could argue that it is more of two chord shuttle.

You might like this:

 

[tb-player]

Not exactly. The key is determined by what the harmony is actually doing. That could involve a common or garden key as understand in Western functional harmony, or a mode, or some more or less consonant bit of harmony that's not easily definable as either.

There's not really much, if any, C major functionality in "Dreams," so I'd hesitate to call it C major. Nor am I sure what we'd actually get out of calling it that. You could call it F lydian and call it a day.

F Lydian is not a key. It's a mode. F Lydian is a mode in the key of C major.

 

[ChrisAlan]

A minor also has no sharps or flats…? Why not call it that? Do you just reference everything back to the relative major, or I chord?

Let it freakin go
Sounds like it's in C and the person you don't agree with in the band says it in C so you came here for backup.
A minor is also the same freakin key.

Sticking on a note that isn't the key doesn't make it the key.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

The tonic C major is not a requirement.

I'd argue it pretty much is. I can't 100% guarantee that no exceptions exist, but if they do, they're not just uncommon but very rare.