I agree, Jake. For me the starting point for a great Bluegrass bassist is to love Bluegrass. Listen to it, learn it, let it be a part of you.
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Double Bass What makes a good Bluegrass Bassist ?
- Thread starter Doley50
- Start date
This guy always sends me to the woodshed. Yeah, I know, it's just blues, he's just the bassist.....
Well put Jason:
I played with a great fiddler a few times and I used to say that if you put 20 other fiddlers up against a wall and asked them all to play a G ....this guy would be the one who played it better. Hard to say why but you just knew it was right.
So yeah...it's not about what you are playing but the way you play it. There are some bluegrass bass players who play a simple tune but add something of their own to it that adds to the musical value. You have to listen to the whole to see what they do to it.
Bob Moore and old Junior Husky heard things in a song that brought out some subtle bass stuff that added to the tune but did not change or detract from the mood, feel etc. Dennis Crouch, Marshall Wilburn and Ben Isaacs are good examples of the newer players. And of course Byron House.
Even straight root-five can have character and swing with a good bass player .
I played with a great fiddler a few times and I used to say that if you put 20 other fiddlers up against a wall and asked them all to play a G ....this guy would be the one who played it better. Hard to say why but you just knew it was right.
So yeah...it's not about what you are playing but the way you play it. There are some bluegrass bass players who play a simple tune but add something of their own to it that adds to the musical value. You have to listen to the whole to see what they do to it.
Bob Moore and old Junior Husky heard things in a song that brought out some subtle bass stuff that added to the tune but did not change or detract from the mood, feel etc. Dennis Crouch, Marshall Wilburn and Ben Isaacs are good examples of the newer players. And of course Byron House.
Even straight root-five can have character and swing with a good bass player .
I've just started double bass after playing a lot of rock/blues EB. Joined up with a friend who does a lot of old time sessions mainly for something to keep me occupied. Apart from struggling with a physically big instrument I find I have to think way more about what I'm playing even though it sounds simple. I can't just chuck in a flurry of notes when I lose rhythm to get back in line and every note actually sticks out especially if i get it wrong.
Really enjoying every second og it !!!
Really enjoying every second og it !!!
I am not a bass player, but have played mando in gospel groups for appx. 25 yrs. I agree that most guys, and especially non-musicians, can't tell a good bluegrass bassist from a great one. This light came on for me when our band was booked to play at Gospel Night at the Kentuckians of Mi. club here in S.E. Mi. Our electric bass player got sick and couldn't go and we decided to go anyway. When we got there Eddie Boggs was there and said that he would sit in with his blonde Kay. Eddie was set up directly behind me. What a huge difference he made. I can't describe just exactly what it was he was doing. But that was the best that our band had ever sounded. I guess that he was just driving us like a team of mules. Since that time I usually pay attention to bass players. They don't have to play a zillion jazzy notes in a short period of time to be a solid bluegrass bass player. But that is just my opinion. Vic.
I think the key to good bluegrass bass is to not mess with the two-beat feel but to think about the long line. Sure, you could just play the root on 1 and the five on 3. Occasionally, you could throw in a well placed third or a quarter note passing tone; you don't have to syncopate or overplay to make it interesting.
When I play those types of tunes, I stick to beats one and three but I think about the line over multiple measure instead of just one note at a time.
When I play those types of tunes, I stick to beats one and three but I think about the line over multiple measure instead of just one note at a time.
To me (and I've played both) Bluegrass is exactly like funk and soul in this respect. It's more about what you DON'T play than what you do. It's a support role. The music (and most of it's players that I have played with) is fun! Just lay back and enjoy.
+1
For me, the fun of playing some bluegrass here and there is that I don't have to think with so much harmonic complexity all the time and I can concentrate more on the tone and feel of the instrument that I love.
What a bunch of great comments!
Several people have mentioned "drive". For my money, that's what separates the pikers from the pros. Where you start the note, how you start the note, and how long you hold the note for.
The bluegrass folks I know want me to be "on" or slightly "ahead" of the beat. They want the leading edge of the note to "pop"; and, most often, they want short, well defined, notes.
That last part is what I find challenging. I mainly play bebop where the notes will often flow into each other (or I should say, you can get away with letting the notes flow into each other
). Not so in bluegrass. Each note has a (very short and rich) life of its own. As a (crude) first approximation, instead of playing quarter notes, play an eight note followed by an eight note rest. The actual length of the note is almost as important as when you start the note. It's a hoot to play around with and a bear to get right.
Oh ya, and then there's all that other stuff that Jason said
Several people have mentioned "drive". For my money, that's what separates the pikers from the pros. Where you start the note, how you start the note, and how long you hold the note for.
The bluegrass folks I know want me to be "on" or slightly "ahead" of the beat. They want the leading edge of the note to "pop"; and, most often, they want short, well defined, notes.
That last part is what I find challenging. I mainly play bebop where the notes will often flow into each other (or I should say, you can get away with letting the notes flow into each other
). Not so in bluegrass. Each note has a (very short and rich) life of its own. As a (crude) first approximation, instead of playing quarter notes, play an eight note followed by an eight note rest. The actual length of the note is almost as important as when you start the note. It's a hoot to play around with and a bear to get right.Oh ya, and then there's all that other stuff that Jason said
That's a great point and a common mistake of jazzers. In jazz we're taught to make the line smooth, make the notes blend into a beautiful line. In Bluegrass and Oldtime (and a lot of other dance musics) you are playing a more drumlike role (no pun intended). Your notes and the space between should provide a rolling rhythm. I actually do use the other approach at times and it can be very effective for a short while at the right time. I play a series of long note somewhat behind the beat so it almost feels like I'm "catching up". Then, wham, back in front of the beat. It can create a slingshot effect, stretching the beat, then flinging the tune forward and back on top.
The one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is that bluegrass is primarily vocal music. The instruments are there to service the song. You can put in a few fills and walk to the next chord - if it fits with the lyrics, but anything fancier will just detract. I know all about Foggy Mountain Breakdown and Rawhide and all the other great bluegrass instrumentals but IMHO the real essence of the genre is in the vocals.
I'd agree with all the comments on timing. I've played both mandolin and bass in bluegrass bands if those two players gel rhythmically, the music drives. Also, there is something about the tone and presence of a double bass that is key to bluegrass. I have never heard an electric bass guitar player drive a bluegrass band like a DB can (including myself when I've filled in and a BG was all that was handy). It's not just volume, its the shape of the note and the attack.
I'd agree with all the comments on timing. I've played both mandolin and bass in bluegrass bands if those two players gel rhythmically, the music drives. Also, there is something about the tone and presence of a double bass that is key to bluegrass. I have never heard an electric bass guitar player drive a bluegrass band like a DB can (including myself when I've filled in and a BG was all that was handy). It's not just volume, its the shape of the note and the attack.
Great Thread Everybody! 10 out of 10 for all comments! If you can 'Drive' & 'Swing' & above all 'LISTEN' to what's going on around you--thats the key.
Jake deVilliers
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- May 24, 2006
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Jake ... With that extensive use of the 2-chord, I'm thinkin' Chicago Mike is playing some of that bleugrass jazz type-stuff
. He must be listening to a lot of Flecktones. But sooner or later he is gonna have to plant a 1 at the end to complete that 2-5-1 turnaround er'else Folks are gonna get bored .
Thanks PC .... I try to learn something new everyday. Now, thanks to you, I can stop learning for the day, grab a beer, shut off my brain, and practice some perpetual interludes until the wee hours .
The "Aron Copeland Banjo Suites" .... Is that a flop-house in Bristol, Tennessee
? I'll look for it when I get down that way.
Unless you are talking about accordians or harmonicas .... I don't want to know anything more about "other types of Okie Organs"
.
I must be semi-on-my-way to being a bluegrass bassist since my jam-pals bitch at me whenever I can't make it to the regular Tuesday night deal and someone else tries to play bass
. I think I hear a root-5 perpetual interlude calling-out ..... Maybe I will just keep it simple tonight root-root-root-root ..... Like a big ole hog .
.... I try to learn something new everyday. Now, thanks to you, I can stop learning for the day, grab a beer, shut off my brain, and practice some perpetual interludes until the wee hours .The "Aron Copeland Banjo Suites" .... Is that a flop-house in Bristol, Tennessee
? I'll look for it when I get down that way.Unless you are talking about accordians or harmonicas .... I don't want to know anything more about "other types of Okie Organs"
.I must be semi-on-my-way to being a bluegrass bassist since my jam-pals bitch at me whenever I can't make it to the regular Tuesday night deal and someone else tries to play bass
. I think I hear a root-5 perpetual interlude calling-out ..... Maybe I will just keep it simple tonight root-root-root-root ..... Like a big ole hog .
