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Double Bass What makes a good Bluegrass Bassist ?
- Thread starter Doley50
- Start date
Yep PC .... Sally Goodin is a good'un 
. I think it's always better to be "semi-on-the-way" than "all-the-way-there" since I believe the latter defines what it means to Be Dead 
.
Once I get the hang .... I find a lot of freedom to play and walk and mess around in "simple" old fiddle tunes . IMO .... Everyone that wants to be a bluegrass bassist should also play a lot of old-fiddle-tunes with some goodin-fast fiddle-tune players. That either cements your rhythm, timing, and "feel" for the music ....
Or you go running out the front door screaming "I Hate HillBilly Music (but not Kenny Baker) and all-that-other-crap ...... Celtic / French / Irish / Cajun / Nova Scotian / Cape Breton / Metis' Native American Indian / Etc. Etc. Fiddle Music ..... It Sucks Majorly" and by connection .... Bluegrass Music .
I just played my first contra-dance with some fine (out of my own current rookie-league status) musicians. I learned about 20 new fiddle-tunes in 3 weeks .... obscure ones, some with more than 4 chords, major-minor dreaded harmonic-change stuff, strung-together into 2-3 tune medleys with key changes within a tune, parts-is-parts always changing, and old fiddle into western-swing (now there is "feel" change with something totally-different to hang onto).
I had a blast, played about 4 hours (many thanks to the Sheep and Swiss Gods for Gamut guts and Animas), made fitty buck spending money, and got complimented
. I may get to do it again sometime 
. I have a day-job. The only runs I did were in some waltzes. I played around the octaves depending on where the twin fiddles were hitting-it in Parts A & B. It worked out OK.
Actually I'm thinkin' that the most-freedom I have in bluegrass is when it's a 2-chorder (like Katy Daly or Fireball Mail). Like LowEnd and others above said ... Start it out flat-out-simple root-5 and then git-to-walking and runs when it fits. Walking seems to fire up the band in certain passages and when certain players are soloing .... I like walking it when our fiddlers take-off and they seem to like it too
. Carry On.
. I think it's always better to be "semi-on-the-way" than "all-the-way-there" since I believe the latter defines what it means to Be Dead .Once I get the hang .... I find a lot of freedom to play and walk and mess around in "simple" old fiddle tunes
. IMO .... Everyone that wants to be a bluegrass bassist should also play a lot of old-fiddle-tunes with some goodin-fast fiddle-tune players. That either cements your rhythm, timing, and "feel" for the music ....Or you go running out the front door screaming "I Hate HillBilly Music (but not Kenny Baker) and all-that-other-crap ...... Celtic / French / Irish / Cajun / Nova Scotian / Cape Breton / Metis' Native American Indian / Etc. Etc. Fiddle Music ..... It Sucks Majorly" and by connection .... Bluegrass Music
.I just played my first contra-dance with some fine (out of my own current rookie-league status) musicians. I learned about 20 new fiddle-tunes in 3 weeks .... obscure ones, some with more than 4 chords, major-minor dreaded harmonic-change stuff, strung-together into 2-3 tune medleys with key changes within a tune, parts-is-parts always changing, and old fiddle into western-swing (now there is "feel" change with something totally-different to hang onto).
I had a blast, played about 4 hours (many thanks to the Sheep and Swiss Gods for Gamut guts and Animas), made fitty buck spending money, and got complimented
. I may get to do it again sometime . I have a day-job. The only runs I did were in some waltzes. I played around the octaves depending on where the twin fiddles were hitting-it in Parts A & B. It worked out OK.Actually I'm thinkin' that the most-freedom I have in bluegrass is when it's a 2-chorder (like Katy Daly or Fireball Mail). Like LowEnd and others above said ... Start it out flat-out-simple root-5 and then git-to-walking and runs when it fits. Walking seems to fire up the band in certain passages and when certain players are soloing .... I like walking it when our fiddlers take-off and they seem to like it too
. Carry On.
Play that Sally Goodin for about five minutes. Get it good and settled and rocking, then play the E- (fiddle doublestops along with the chord) at the top and watch the chills crawl up your leg all till your hair is standing on end.
Easy There Jason ..... I'm getting all-turned-on .... I don't-much care about The Chills ... Will Sally her-self crawl up my leg ??
I have been experimenting with double-stops on my bass lately as a rookie .... Real Interesting. Anybody here play "Sandy Boys" flat-out ... That one raises my Hackles .... Haunting with good fiddles ....
Sorry Folks
.... I'm on a Runner Tonite .... Copper Ale and "Wood" Smoke. It's Winter Here ....
http://www.billingsgazette.com/news...cle_375c2dba-cfe8-11de-9f0d-001cc4c03286.html .
I thought I'd post some pix and fiddle-tune-chord cheat-sheets I velcro to my Epi upper-bout when I am in doubt
...
Do with them what is appropriate ....
Last Summer was Good ... The Coming Winter .... Maybe Not So Friggin' Much .... Starting out like a Grizzley Bear ..... But I have my memories ..
OK .... The last pic may be confusing . Ron is our HillBilly Chrome band banjo player. If you want to play bluegrass .... It's best to have a hot banjerist that also owns a nice driftboat, knows all the best Montana river holes, and knows where to find big brown trout to catch on a flyrod during The Summer (if it ever comes again).
By The Way ..... It is snowing big-time again this Sunday afternoon. Hope I got gas in the jug and the Honda-Blower starts-up
. Time to wax the skiis and sharpen the edges.
I have been experimenting with double-stops on my bass lately as a rookie .... Real Interesting. Anybody here play "Sandy Boys" flat-out ... That one raises my Hackles .... Haunting with good fiddles
....Sorry Folks
.... I'm on a Runner Tonite .... Copper Ale and "Wood" Smoke. It's Winter Here .... http://www.billingsgazette.com/news...cle_375c2dba-cfe8-11de-9f0d-001cc4c03286.html .
I thought I'd post some pix and fiddle-tune-chord cheat-sheets I velcro to my Epi upper-bout when I am in doubt
...Do with them what is appropriate ....
Last Summer was Good ... The Coming Winter .... Maybe Not So Friggin' Much .... Starting out like a Grizzley Bear ..... But I have my memories ..
OK .... The last pic may be confusing
. Ron is our HillBilly Chrome band banjo player. If you want to play bluegrass .... It's best to have a hot banjerist that also owns a nice driftboat, knows all the best Montana river holes, and knows where to find big brown trout to catch on a flyrod during The Summer (if it ever comes again).By The Way ..... It is snowing big-time again this Sunday afternoon. Hope I got gas in the jug and the Honda-Blower starts-up
. Time to wax the skiis and sharpen the edges.
While I don't play bluegrass/folk/etc. too often, when I do I try to think I am a melodic drummer.
Good drummers usually think of the phrase and song structure. They'll often put a little fill at the end of 4 and 8 bar phrases and there is usually a 1 bar fill just before the beginning of the chorus then back into the verse and so on. The melodic line often has a long note or a rest in these spots as well.
So, these are the places to put a few ghost notes, a rake, a subtle rhythmic flourish or a "soh, la, ti, doh" and so on. When the melody instrument (or singer) has their long note or rest, the flourish stands out more.
Good drummers usually think of the phrase and song structure. They'll often put a little fill at the end of 4 and 8 bar phrases and there is usually a 1 bar fill just before the beginning of the chorus then back into the verse and so on. The melodic line often has a long note or a rest in these spots as well.
So, these are the places to put a few ghost notes, a rake, a subtle rhythmic flourish or a "soh, la, ti, doh" and so on. When the melody instrument (or singer) has their long note or rest, the flourish stands out more.
OK Joyous
..... I will jump in here and try to be Nice before someone else rains on your parade. Drums are mighty-rare in bluegrass .... Not that it hasn't been-done before. Jimmy Martin, Bill Monroe, F & S had some drum-action early-on as they tried to fit-in in the early days of weasling bluegrass music into the staid-countrified Grand Old Opry . Personally .... I like a nice understated snare with brushes as long as it don't ride-over the mando-chop on 2 & 4 and I also appreciate a kick along with my bass on 1 & 3 as long as we work together. However for the most-part .... Bluegrass music don't need a drummer. Other music .... country and western-swing .... It's Good. Rick with "The Time Jumpers" is awesome.
Oh Yeah ..... I Forgot ..... Listen to and Play like this Guy ...
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And His Pop weren't too-bad neither
.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_the_Circle_Be_Unbroken .
Get the Jimmy Martin Bear-Family Box-Set and hear the Originals playing Bass .... Roy M. (Junior) Huskey, Joe Zinkan, Floyd (Lightin') Chance, "Cedric Rainwater" (Howard Watts), and Robert "Bill" Yates .... Those Folks are our mentors.
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.And His Pop weren't too-bad neither
.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_the_Circle_Be_Unbroken .Get the Jimmy Martin Bear-Family Box-Set and hear the Originals playing Bass .... Roy M. (Junior) Huskey, Joe Zinkan, Floyd (Lightin') Chance, "Cedric Rainwater" (Howard Watts), and Robert "Bill" Yates .... Those Folks are our mentors.
Amen to that. And [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] is very nice. Some real memories there.Oh Yeah ..... Listen to and Play like this Guy ...
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Thanks Lacey From Texas
for high-lighting that Web-Site .... I am now gonna have-to down-load some-more of My All-Time Heros and Hero-Esses. I Will Pay The Bills ... What a wonderful photographer . The JD Crowe / Early New South pic with Skaggs and Tony Rice is Killer. My favorite CD ever.Plus Them Friggin'-Hippys .... Sam Bush .... John Cowan ... New Grass Revival ..... Saw them in my formative bluegrass years in Boulder / Telluride Colorado in about 1978 ... And lived to tell about it
..I will pay for the rights .... And print out The Portraits on our HP full-deal laser-printer at work ... Frame Them and Enjoy Myself ..... Sweet Pictures by a Fine-Pic-Taker ... No Doubt
.
This is a good approach when the song calls for it. An example that comes to mind would be Bobby Sloane playing 'Somehow Tonight' on JD Crowe's Blackjack album. His bass sounds like a tympani.
The same qualities that make a fundamentally "good" bassist apply to bluegrass: good intonation, creative soloing, good sense of dynamics, good left hand position. But its also important to be able to play in 4/4 time when the situation calls for it, and that means understanding walking bass lines. I am amuzed when I see how younger players are just amazed when they hear a bassist walking and driving a bluegrass group, but that's not new....Maybe its because I am so old!
Listen to some of the best Bluegrass bassists of the past and you'll quickly see that they set standards in the genre with some technically brilliant lines. I am referring to (among others):
-- Tom Morgan (Buzz Busby, Red Allen & The Kentuckians, The Country Gentlemen). Tom was/is (he is still semi-active) fundamentally a guitarist but MAN! Could Tom kick a band with his big American Standard bass! And by the way, nothing at all against Marshall Wilborn-- he is one of my favorite players too-- but Tom was slapping out the melody on bass when Marshall was merely a gleam in his daddy's eye...
BTW, Single, double and tripple slapping ARE part of the tool kit for a bluegrass (and Trad Jazz) bassist. Period.
-- George Shuffler (Stanleys), is generally regarded as the first BG bassist to play in 4/4 time. What a solid player George was.
-- Tom Gray (Country Gentlemen, Seldom Scene, and just about every band in the Baltimore-DC area). Tom took walking bass to high art in the BG genre...(not to mention his kick-a-- work with the local Trad Jazz groups around town) He is also a prince of a guy, self-effacing and humble. And true to the acoustic bass-- when the Seldom Scene wanted him to go electric, he tried it, disliked it, and bowed out with grace.
Nowadays, the top performers are those who can combine all of these elements into their performance: walking 4/4 time, slapping, soloing, dynamics, timing, creative lines, including use of passing tones....surprise, surprise, all of the elements that consititute good bass work regardless of genre. In BG however, we're talking Mike Bub, Missy Raines, Gene Libea, that cat with Alison, and many other lesser knowns who are out there on the pro circuit. It certainly helps to have a jazz background, and some of the best BG players have it.
Listen to some of the best Bluegrass bassists of the past and you'll quickly see that they set standards in the genre with some technically brilliant lines. I am referring to (among others):
-- Tom Morgan (Buzz Busby, Red Allen & The Kentuckians, The Country Gentlemen). Tom was/is (he is still semi-active) fundamentally a guitarist but MAN! Could Tom kick a band with his big American Standard bass! And by the way, nothing at all against Marshall Wilborn-- he is one of my favorite players too-- but Tom was slapping out the melody on bass when Marshall was merely a gleam in his daddy's eye...
BTW, Single, double and tripple slapping ARE part of the tool kit for a bluegrass (and Trad Jazz) bassist. Period.
-- George Shuffler (Stanleys), is generally regarded as the first BG bassist to play in 4/4 time. What a solid player George was.
-- Tom Gray (Country Gentlemen, Seldom Scene, and just about every band in the Baltimore-DC area). Tom took walking bass to high art in the BG genre...(not to mention his kick-a-- work with the local Trad Jazz groups around town) He is also a prince of a guy, self-effacing and humble. And true to the acoustic bass-- when the Seldom Scene wanted him to go electric, he tried it, disliked it, and bowed out with grace.
Nowadays, the top performers are those who can combine all of these elements into their performance: walking 4/4 time, slapping, soloing, dynamics, timing, creative lines, including use of passing tones....surprise, surprise, all of the elements that consititute good bass work regardless of genre. In BG however, we're talking Mike Bub, Missy Raines, Gene Libea, that cat with Alison, and many other lesser knowns who are out there on the pro circuit. It certainly helps to have a jazz background, and some of the best BG players have it.
What makes a good Bluegrass Bassist ?
Knowing when not to; 1. slap, 2. walk, 3. play root / five,
4. play at all.
Knowing when to; 1. push the rythym, 2. drag the rythym,
3. play on top of the beat
Knowing how to; 1. play in time, 2. play in tune / pitch,
3. select the right octave, 4. get the max tone from your instrument
A good Bluegrass Bassist knows 3/4 of this. A Great Bluegrass Bassist knows all of this.
Knowing when not to; 1. slap, 2. walk, 3. play root / five,
4. play at all.
Knowing when to; 1. push the rythym, 2. drag the rythym,
3. play on top of the beat
Knowing how to; 1. play in time, 2. play in tune / pitch,
3. select the right octave, 4. get the max tone from your instrument
A good Bluegrass Bassist knows 3/4 of this. A Great Bluegrass Bassist knows all of this.
Indeed he rips. What needs to be considered is defining the style/term 'Bluegrass'. Once you step out of strict tradition, then it becomes rather broad and a lot of out of the box musicianship can take place.
+1, Though I like to add a few:
Knowing when not to; 5. Holler "WeeEEEEE DAWGIE!"
Knowing when to; 4. Holler "WeeEEEEE DAWGIE!"
Knowing how to; 5. Navigate verses and choruses using all open strings, so as to drink homemade corn liquor, mid-song. 6. Sing a most high and lonesome tenor. 7. Carry your bass all over stage while not tripping on microphone cables or losing time. 8. Slap my granny.
hmm? dont really get this! except #6.
but this is TB. so what more would i expect!!
thats some good points you said Tim!
Permit me to throw a monkey wrench into the equation. Try singing and playing the bass. Its a whole new dimension to the phrase, "Good bluegrass bass player". Not meaning to stir anything up, but to do both is very difficult. Sometimes, I am jealous of the bass player that only has to play. Thoughts?
ES1
ES1
JB wrote:
"that cat with Alison, and many other lesser knowns who are out there on the pro circuit."
JB: "that cat" with Alison is Dennis Crouch who has played with Aubrey Haynie and many other bands /recordings and was one of the founding members of the Time Jumpers. I would not class him as a" lesser known".
He is my definition of a perfect bluegrass player because he has magical time and perfect licks to complement it. Plus he has the taste to go with it.
He is also a disciple of the wonderful Bob Moore, the most recorded bass player in Nashville who brought the best of jazz and western swing playing to country and pop music back in the 50's and 60's. He also played and recorded for Flatt and Scruggs, Bill Monroe, the Osbornes, Wilma Lee and Stoney Cooper, Mac Wiseman and many others. Any new bluegrass bass player could learn a lot from his authoritative and musical playing.
I think the qualities that Dennis Crouch, Tom Gray and Gene Libbea, for example, bring to bluegrass are a good knowledge of other genres of music. They know how to add non-bluegrass subtleties that add to the music without taking away the solid time.
As bluegrass music encompasses more and more material from outside the traditional form, bass players will need to be up to the challenge. Travis Book and Byron House are great examples of that.
At least that's my take as another bluegrass geezer!
"that cat with Alison, and many other lesser knowns who are out there on the pro circuit."
JB: "that cat" with Alison is Dennis Crouch who has played with Aubrey Haynie and many other bands /recordings and was one of the founding members of the Time Jumpers. I would not class him as a" lesser known".
He is my definition of a perfect bluegrass player because he has magical time and perfect licks to complement it. Plus he has the taste to go with it.
He is also a disciple of the wonderful Bob Moore, the most recorded bass player in Nashville who brought the best of jazz and western swing playing to country and pop music back in the 50's and 60's. He also played and recorded for Flatt and Scruggs, Bill Monroe, the Osbornes, Wilma Lee and Stoney Cooper, Mac Wiseman and many others. Any new bluegrass bass player could learn a lot from his authoritative and musical playing.
I think the qualities that Dennis Crouch, Tom Gray and Gene Libbea, for example, bring to bluegrass are a good knowledge of other genres of music. They know how to add non-bluegrass subtleties that add to the music without taking away the solid time.
As bluegrass music encompasses more and more material from outside the traditional form, bass players will need to be up to the challenge. Travis Book and Byron House are great examples of that.
At least that's my take as another bluegrass geezer!
