- May 16, 2009
- 625
- 743
- Disclosures
- Former Manager, Bass San Diego
...at the moment I could be running my Sony Vaio into a 1000 watt amp and vintage 4X10's.
Touche
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What makes a Squier not a Fender?
- Thread starter blopazone
- Start date
Touche
with no strings strung they seem to have an even amount of`drag' when the screws are turned and in fact do all tuners have the same amount of `drag' or `friction',also on your tunas can you wiggle the posts?,you know! any slop when you grab the string posts and wiggle with no strings strung?
those are a couple items i'd consider taking under consideration after thumping on an instrument loudly,sometimes instruments flex expand and contract,sloppy posts and loose gears well heck,,that and some sloppy saddle setup and expect some shifting of the setup
now i do have a Squier and in fact it has perfectly functioning tunas that i see no reason to replace,,and the exact same warrenty as a made in USA version,is it a `Fender'? sombody said if Leo himself didn't build it it's not a Fender!
i'd say find a guitar you'd like to play and then have fun with it,new used custom build or craigs list=whatever
,merry christmas!
those are a couple items i'd consider taking under consideration after thumping on an instrument loudly,sometimes instruments flex expand and contract,sloppy posts and loose gears well heck,,that and some sloppy saddle setup and expect some shifting of the setup
now i do have a Squier and in fact it has perfectly functioning tunas that i see no reason to replace,,and the exact same warrenty as a made in USA version,is it a `Fender'? sombody said if Leo himself didn't build it it's not a Fender!
i'd say find a guitar you'd like to play and then have fun with it,new used custom build or craigs list=whatever
,merry christmas!
OK, so I pulled up the specs between the Fender MIM J-Bass and the Squier Affinity J-Bass:
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From what I can, see the specs are almost identical. Same wood, same neck, same finish. Even the strings are the same part number. The only things they list as different are the bridge and the pickguard. Everyone who is claiming that they're different in neck, body, wood, etc, doesn't have a leg to stand on so far.
Without the decal, I'll bet it would be harder to tell a difference between a MIM and a Squier than most people claim.
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From what I can, see the specs are almost identical. Same wood, same neck, same finish. Even the strings are the same part number. The only things they list as different are the bridge and the pickguard. Everyone who is claiming that they're different in neck, body, wood, etc, doesn't have a leg to stand on so far.
Without the decal, I'll bet it would be harder to tell a difference between a MIM and a Squier than most people claim.
Somebody said that?
Well, and if Ray Keating and Ed Klepfer weren't playing it wasn't the real New York Yankees! What about all the Fords around, are they real Fords? Henry has been dead a while. What about Wal Mart? Are you actually shopping there since Sam passed on? Musicman and G&L, same thing? I could go on, but what's the point...
MIM Fenders, MIA Fenders, MIJ/CIJ Fenders, Squiers, and any other brands that make copies of Fender style basses all have different specs. The neck pockets on one won't be the same as on another, the pickguards aren't interchangeable, sometimes pickup cavities aren't the same size.
Build quality is going to vary between manufacturers and their lines, and the parts used will vary as well. These things will even vary over time. Really the only thing that makes a Fender a Fender is where it came from, what production line it came off of. You can slap a Fender logo on any bass but that doesn't make it a Fender. And you can strip the logo off of an actual Fender, but that doesn't change where it came from. And simply because it's a Fender doesn't mean you won't find Squier that can outperform it.
Build quality is going to vary between manufacturers and their lines, and the parts used will vary as well. These things will even vary over time. Really the only thing that makes a Fender a Fender is where it came from, what production line it came off of. You can slap a Fender logo on any bass but that doesn't make it a Fender. And you can strip the logo off of an actual Fender, but that doesn't change where it came from. And simply because it's a Fender doesn't mean you won't find Squier that can outperform it.
The same type of wood does not mean the same GRADE of wood or would you consider B grade beef the same as US prime grade? The tuners are indeed different on MIM Fenders and Squiers, while they both are "open" tuners there is a distinct difference in size.
Kind of interesting about the amount of opinions there are about this, and they're all in Squier's side which lets me know straight away that there's an unoticable difference between them both but the decal I'm not worried about. I'm going to get it once I have the dough.
I can quite hear the difference in the vid, which is not much at all. But is it worth to get preamps installed in it in the future? Considering that the installation could include drilling and everything
While I was searchin for fenders I found this. However I've always wondered the name and the use of the metal pieces above bridge/neck pickup and bridge:
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I can quite hear the difference in the vid, which is not much at all. But is it worth to get preamps installed in it in the future? Considering that the installation could include drilling and everything
While I was searchin for fenders I found this. However I've always wondered the name and the use of the metal pieces above bridge/neck pickup and bridge:
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I've got a Squier CV 60's P and a MIM Special Deluxe Active. Been playing the Squier a LOT lately, keep picking up the Fender and playing it for a while and coming back to the Squier. The build quality is TOP NOTCH and I'm pretty sure if Fender would allow Squier to use slightly nicer tuners and knobs, the Squier CV series basses would be every bit as nice as a Fender.
The Tuners work fine, but are no where near as smooth as my MIM Fender's, they do stay in tune however, but feel "notchy" when tuning. Also the knobs on the pots are push on and kind of cheesy. Looking to upgrade these to some decent flat top Fender knobs. The pots feel great and have no scratchiness or any other bad qualities.
I see no need to upgrade the pick ups, they sound fantastic imho. I replaced the vintage alnico pups in my Squier strat with boutique vintage alnico pups and I'll be damned if I can tell the difference, it was a waste of $$ as far as I can tell. I should have picked up some hotter pups, Texas style etc, then I would have been able to tell the difference.
The Squier is basswood, but it feels solid and the body dimensions look to be identical to my Fender MIM (ashwood). The tone is fantastic imo. The finish is excellent all around, BETTER than my MIM (I can feel some defects in the machining of the neck on my Fender but the Squier is perfect).
I think the CV series are fantastic and hope that Squier will upgrade to better knobs and tuners in the future (I doubt Fender will let that happen, just to maintain some difference in quality between MIM and Squier), the cost to Squier would be negligible. Considering the price I paid for the sucker, I could replace knobs and tuners and still have an awesome bass that cost less than a used Fender.
That said, I've seen some ugly Squiers, I think they really put they're heart into the CV series.
The Tuners work fine, but are no where near as smooth as my MIM Fender's, they do stay in tune however, but feel "notchy" when tuning. Also the knobs on the pots are push on and kind of cheesy. Looking to upgrade these to some decent flat top Fender knobs. The pots feel great and have no scratchiness or any other bad qualities.
I see no need to upgrade the pick ups, they sound fantastic imho. I replaced the vintage alnico pups in my Squier strat with boutique vintage alnico pups and I'll be damned if I can tell the difference, it was a waste of $$ as far as I can tell. I should have picked up some hotter pups, Texas style etc, then I would have been able to tell the difference.
The Squier is basswood, but it feels solid and the body dimensions look to be identical to my Fender MIM (ashwood). The tone is fantastic imo. The finish is excellent all around, BETTER than my MIM (I can feel some defects in the machining of the neck on my Fender but the Squier is perfect).
I think the CV series are fantastic and hope that Squier will upgrade to better knobs and tuners in the future (I doubt Fender will let that happen, just to maintain some difference in quality between MIM and Squier), the cost to Squier would be negligible. Considering the price I paid for the sucker, I could replace knobs and tuners and still have an awesome bass that cost less than a used Fender.
That said, I've seen some ugly Squiers, I think they really put they're heart into the CV series.
I'll add to the above post and say that the stock alnico pickup in my recently acquired CV 50s P sounds fantastic. I am not even considering a change. I actually think the tuners are fine as well -- they are not as smooth as my MIA tuners, but they are very solid and look nice enough. This thing is within a very minor tweak of being as good as MIA fenders.
The Squier is Fender's budget brand, and there's a good side and a bad side to that.
The good side is that Squier uses Fender's thoroughly developed designs to produce instruments that more players can afford. A good friend and I gigged with his $199 Squier J for several years with no problems. My first P was a Squier.
The bad side is that it's a budget brand, and that means that shortcuts are taken in manufacturing and materials.
Sometimes a given instrument is a killer, more often it's not. Cheaper woods are used (my Squier P was plywood) -- you can understand the importance of this if you turn it around to, "why does Fender use more expensive wood?" Because it may be more stable, more resonant, or more some quality that makes it better. Otherwise Fender would use the basswood, right?
Electronics can be hit-or-miss with Squiers. I know, people say Fenders are hit-or-miss too, but after owning several Fenders, I've not found that to be true. In fact, I always suspect someone who puts down Fender (or Gibson, another target) of poor quality as having some hidden motive -- I've not seen a bad one. I HAVE seen plenty of substandard Squiers.
The manufacture of Squier (and similar products like Epiphone) is moved from time to time as Fender finds new locations that will build them for less. This may translate into poorer quality. Not necessarily, but an experienced work force is important.
So, if you're happy with a Squier (and if you have a Squier you can be happy with) there's no significant difference. For those of us who occasionally upgrade our instruments, Squiers retain so little resale or trade-in value that it's almost non-existent.
So I play Fenders now, and my Epiphones are long gone, replace by Gibsons. I'm fortunate to be able to indulge my tastes, but you'll note that I played the budget instruments when that was necessary. It's great that good, inexpensive instruments are available -- which was not the case when I was coming up. Just don't mistake bang for the buck for intrinsic value, and you'll be OK.
The good side is that Squier uses Fender's thoroughly developed designs to produce instruments that more players can afford. A good friend and I gigged with his $199 Squier J for several years with no problems. My first P was a Squier.
The bad side is that it's a budget brand, and that means that shortcuts are taken in manufacturing and materials.
Sometimes a given instrument is a killer, more often it's not. Cheaper woods are used (my Squier P was plywood) -- you can understand the importance of this if you turn it around to, "why does Fender use more expensive wood?" Because it may be more stable, more resonant, or more some quality that makes it better. Otherwise Fender would use the basswood, right?
Electronics can be hit-or-miss with Squiers. I know, people say Fenders are hit-or-miss too, but after owning several Fenders, I've not found that to be true. In fact, I always suspect someone who puts down Fender (or Gibson, another target) of poor quality as having some hidden motive -- I've not seen a bad one. I HAVE seen plenty of substandard Squiers.
The manufacture of Squier (and similar products like Epiphone) is moved from time to time as Fender finds new locations that will build them for less. This may translate into poorer quality. Not necessarily, but an experienced work force is important.
So, if you're happy with a Squier (and if you have a Squier you can be happy with) there's no significant difference. For those of us who occasionally upgrade our instruments, Squiers retain so little resale or trade-in value that it's almost non-existent.
So I play Fenders now, and my Epiphones are long gone, replace by Gibsons. I'm fortunate to be able to indulge my tastes, but you'll note that I played the budget instruments when that was necessary. It's great that good, inexpensive instruments are available -- which was not the case when I was coming up. Just don't mistake bang for the buck for intrinsic value, and you'll be OK.
The number of references in this thread to upgrading a Squier is revealing.
Is that just because the general but mistaken belief is that they are in need of it? Or, is it a statement of fact that they are sub-Fender quality?
Is that just because the general but mistaken belief is that they are in need of it? Or, is it a statement of fact that they are sub-Fender quality?
Yeah, the knobs and tuners are sub-Fender quality on my Squier. That's about it. I think Fender wants it that way. I paid $200 for my Squier, brand new. I could probably sell it for more than that, used. Sounds like a good value to me.
I've got the Fender and play them back to back. The Squier tuners work fine and look great, they're just not as smooth as on a nicer (more expensive) instrument.There are some high end basses are being made with Basswood.
I've demoed the Squier vintage Jazz and the fretless jazz, and they aren't bad. But, I don't think they are necessarily gig worthy out of the box. Better to go for a new MiM Fender Jazz.
So would some of the nicer old growth wood being cut possibly even be better than the agriculturally grown stuff being used for MIA or MIM? I'm not for cutting some of the pristine areas and not practicing sustainable agriculture, but just for the sake of argument I would say that some of the wood may even be better.
Although I have never played a Squier bass I did own a Squier Stratocaster for a couple of years. I paid $125 for it and it was not even worth that. It was a piece of crap- after a few months the pick guard warped so bad that it couldn't even be screwed back into place. I could never get the neck to stay straight, either buzzing on the lower frets or out of tune on the higher.
i play a squier classic vibe precision and sold all my MIM fenders. Currently a CV P bass is 350$ and a MIM P bass is 550$. If you took the CV i think stock it sounds better then MIM's now put another 200$ into personallizing the CV to your tastes, which bass is better? the one that is modded to your needs or the stock on for the masses.
But i honestly feel a Classic Vibe squier is nicer then the MIM's on average, maybe because i dig the high gloss necks , hi mass bridges and vintage frets.
But i honestly feel a Classic Vibe squier is nicer then the MIM's on average, maybe because i dig the high gloss necks , hi mass bridges and vintage frets.
Everything is different between all levels of fender...material quality, who is assembling them....set up, electronics. That being said....I have picked up really nice Squires and really bad Squires...same as fenders....all of them a re a bit different.
If it plays well, has good tone ad you like it...who in the hell cares what it says on the headstock (IMO).
This is the same as the "my Epi is as good as a Gibson" BS a Epi is not a Gibson and a Squier is not a Fender any more than a SX is a Fender. And I will ad, a Fender is not a Lakland or a Mike Lull even though they are based on the Fender. If you like your Squier that is great, good for you, But don't try and tell me that you Sqier is as good as a REAL Fender, except for a few parts. Geez
I disagree with this. Squier is owned by Fender and uses body dimentions and specs much closer to Fender, because they legally can, than SX. On top of that, Squiers have a tiny Fender logo underneath the Squier one. In a very real way, a Squier IS a Fender, just a budget line. The semantic distinction comes into play when we associate Fender with quality and Squier with lesser quality and think that quality is what makes a Fender a Fender. It doesn't. There are some pretty meh MIM's out there and some pretty great Squier's. So again, in a way, a Squier IS a Fender. But at the same time, it isn't. The Squier name is Fender's way of disassociating that line of instruments from their main line which they want you to think is better so they can charge more. The same goes for Epiphone. I've played some Epiphone guitars that are nicer than their Gibson equivalents, and a lot of Epis that are much worse. I've noticed they keep the designs closer to Gibson's than other companies can, but still keep them slightly different in minor areas so that the instrument is still not "the real thing."
An SX is not a Fender at all. They use different specs to avoid getting sued, while copying Fender designs closely enough so the buyer gets something that looks, feels, and sounds similar. No matter how good an SX, or even a Lakland can get, it simply isn't a Fender for both design and corporate ownership reasons. You could slap a Fender logo on it, but... well, that wouldn't change what it is or isn't.
On a literal level, a Fender is a Fender because the Fender company made it. If you're talking about a certain inconcrete Fenderness (which is where I think this debate is stemming from), then what makes a Fender a Fender is the feel and sound that Fender pioneered, something that other companies can get pretty close to. And if that's the case, good luck finding a place to draw the line between Fender and not-Fender.
