What makes a Squier not a Fender?

[dvh]

i play a squier classic vibe precision and sold all my MIM fenders. Currently a CV P bass is 350$ and a MIM P bass is 550$. If you took the CV i think stock it sounds better then MIM's now put another 200$ into personallizing the CV to your tastes, which bass is better? the one that is modded to your needs or the stock on for the masses.

But i honestly feel a Classic Vibe squier is nicer then the MIM's on average, maybe because i dig the high gloss necks , hi mass bridges and vintage frets.

The "sound" of a particular bass is the least relevant basis for comparison. It is far too subjective.

The differences are in the hardware, construction etc. From what I have gleaned from the many threads on this topic:

Some Squier's are of exceptional value and quality but, they are made of parts, and constructed, with less value than a "Fender" labeled instrument.

Does NOT mean they are not valid and usable in their own right.

 

[hdracer]

I disagree with this. Squier is owned by Fender and uses body dimentions and specs much closer to Fender, because they legally can, than SX. On top of that, Squiers have a tiny Fender logo underneath the Squier one. In a very real way, a Squier IS a Fender, just a budget line. The semantic distinction comes into play when we associate Fender with quality and Squier with lesser quality and think that quality is what makes a Fender a Fender. It doesn't. There are some pretty meh MIM's out there and some pretty great Squier's. So again, in a way, a Squier IS a Fender. But at the same time, it isn't. The Squier name is Fender's way of disassociating that line of instruments from their main line which they want you to think is better so they can charge more. The same goes for Epiphone. I've played some Epiphone guitars that are nicer than their Gibson equivalents, and a lot of Epis that are much worse. I've noticed they keep the designs closer to Gibson's than other companies can, but still keep them slightly different in minor areas so that the instrument is still not "the real thing."

An SX is not a Fender at all. They use different specs to avoid getting sued, while copying Fender designs closely enough so the buyer gets something that looks, feels, and sounds similar. No matter how good an SX, or even a Lakland can get, it simply isn't a Fender for both design and corporate ownership reasons. You could slap a Fender logo on it, but... well, that wouldn't change what it is or isn't.

On a literal level, a Fender is a Fender because the Fender company made it. If you're talking about a certain inconcrete Fenderness (which is where I think this debate is stemming from), then what makes a Fender a Fender is the feel and sound that Fender pioneered, something that other companies can get pretty close to. And if that's the case, good luck finding a place to draw the line between Fender and not-Fender.

A SX is closer to a real Fender than a Squier. At least they use the same wood. I have yet to see a real Fender with a basswood or agathis body. I have also never seen a fretless Fender with a plastic (sorry Ebonol) fingerboard. Have you seen a VM next to a FSR and then a MIA Deluxe? How about a Mike Dirnt Fender next to a Squier Dirnt? They are not even close and when you play them through the same amp you can feel and hear the difference. Come on, It is like saying a Chevette is the same as a Corvette. The both have a bowtie on the hood. I am not trying to put down Squiers, but when people say a Squier is the same as a Fender you are putting down a Fender. They are not Fender Squier's it is Squier by Fender

 

[marchone]

I picked up a Squier J bass out of sheer curiosity in a Guitar Center last week. I didn't even bother to tune it, it felt so crappy. Maybe with a proper setup it would be usable but I'm glad I don't have to.

My first real bass guitar was a new '68 Fender Telecaster. I'd go without until I could afford to buy a decent bass today if I were starting out. And that means used. Where the value is in better instruments.

Now this topic has me curious about what a new American Fender P or J bass is like. The Custom Shop basses look great but pretty pricey.

 

[odin70]

I bet that it costs Fender (not more than) 50$ to make a good bass vs a bad one.

 

[A-Step-Towards]

A SX is closer to a real Fender than a Squier. At least they use the same wood. I have yet to see a real Fender with a basswood or agathis body. I have also never seen a fretless Fender with a plastic (sorry Ebonol) fingerboard. Have you seen a VM next to a FSR and then a MIA Deluxe? How about a Mike Dirnt Fender next to a Squier Dirnt? They are not even close and when you play them through the same amp you can feel and hear the difference. Come on, It is like saying a Chevette is the same as a Corvette. The both have a bowtie on the hood. I am not trying to put down Squiers, but when people say a Squier is the same as a Fender you are putting down a Fender. They are not Fender Squier's it is Squier by Fender

real FENDER made in japan jazz bass specials are made of basswood so yeah

 

[Aspidites]

I bet that it costs Fender (not more than) 50$ to make a good bass vs a bad one.

If you are talking from different counties of manufacture then I vehemently disagree.

 

[marchone]

The wood and hardware upgrades alone will raise their costs to the better part of a grand.

 

[odin70]

If you are talking from different counties of manufacture then I vehemently disagree.

ok..i mean if Fender produced all their instruments in e.g Mexico i really think my earlier statment would hold water. When you buy an expensive Fender, you pay for us salaries ( i belive they stil are i bit higher than in mx) and the brand (miUS). Imo there is no reason why the best Fenders not should be produced in Mexico.

 

[Aspidites]

ok..i mean if Fender produced all their instruments in e.g Mexico i really think my earlier statment would hold water. When you buy an expensive Fender, you pay for us salaries ( i belive they stil are i bit higher than in mx) and the brand (miUS). Imo there is no reason why the best Fenders not should be produced in Mexico.

I am sure the wages are far higher in the US than in Mexico.

If we take beer as an analogy it is far more expensive to make in the US than Mexico just as it is far more expensive for a microbrewery (or boutique luthier) to make a given product than it is a mass production facility in the same country.

A certain well known brewery (read swill factory) can make a keg of beer for .50c while it may cost a microbrewery anywhere from $50.00-$150.00 to produce a keg depending on style. Translate those numbers to basses and you get the idea.

 

[knumbskull]

This is the same as the "my Epi is as good as a Gibson" BS a Epi is not a Gibson and a Squier is not a Fender any more than a SX is a Fender. And I will ad, a Fender is not a Lakland or a Mike Lull even though they are based on the Fender. If you like your Squier that is great, good for you, But don't try and tell me that you Sqier is as good as a REAL Fender, except for a few parts. Geez

many REAL Fender instruments have extremely poor QC. as a company they are noted for the inconsistency of their output.

 

[odin70]

I am sure the wages are far higher in the US than in Mexico.

If we take beer as an analogy it is far more expensive to make in the US than Mexico just as it is far more expensive for a microbrewery (or boutique luthier) to make a given product than it is a mass production facility in the same country.

A certain well known brewery (read swill factory) can make a keg of beer for .50c while it may cost a microbrewery anywhere from $50.00-$150.00 to produce a keg depending on style. Translate those numbers to basses and you get the idea.

I belive you. But again..from a consumers point of view..If Fender had choosen to produce its best basses in MX, the consumers would have just as good instruments for half the money (at least) But they wont because with the Made in US sticker, they can charge more for the instrument than they should. People belive that machines that makes instruments in California does it better than the same machine would over the border. Anyways..it would really not surprise me if most of the "US" instruments actually are made in MX and shipped over the border for the last "touch", only to put on the pricey Made in US sticker.

 

[Johnny Alien]

many REAL Fender instruments have extremely poor QC. as a company they are noted for the inconsistency of their output.

They have been labeled as inconstant in the past but I think unfairly. I seriously think Guitar Center has more to do with people's opinions of poor Fenders than Fender themselves.

Regardless starting in 2008 Fender has on a whole lost the poor QC stigma.

 

[Johnny Alien]

A SX is closer to a real Fender than a Squier. At least they use the same wood. I have yet to see a real Fender with a basswood or agathis body. I have also never seen a fretless Fender with a plastic (sorry Ebonol) fingerboard. Have you seen a VM next to a FSR and then a MIA Deluxe? How about a Mike Dirnt Fender next to a Squier Dirnt? They are not even close and when you play them through the same amp you can feel and hear the difference. Come on, It is like saying a Chevette is the same as a Corvette. The both have a bowtie on the hood. I am not trying to put down Squiers, but when people say a Squier is the same as a Fender you are putting down a Fender. They are not Fender Squier's it is Squier by Fender

I can agree about instruments feeling cheap and I have played plenty of Squiers that did feel cheap but some of the newer ones are great and leaps and bounds above SX. I honestly do not understand the hype surrounding SX. I have played a couple of my friends SX's and while they are decent for the money they are no better than a normal Squier and below the quality of a Squier Classic Vibe. Cheap grades of alder are not any better than basswood but having the name makes people feel better.

 

[blopazone]

Everyone is saying Classic Vibes are awesome, but what I'm goin to get is a Vintage Modified. Are they alot worse then CV?

 

[ProfGumby]

Everyone is saying Classic Vibes are awesome, but what I'm goin to get is a Vintage Modified. Are they alot worse then CV?

In my opinion, no. The VM basses are fine in their own right The VM's have Duncan designed pickups and a different neck profile than the CV. And the body woods are different, especially as far as the jazz basses go. The VM has maple where the CV is basswood.

If you like the VM, buy the VM. You'll love it!

 

[Lukejt]

Everyone is saying Classic Vibes are awesome, but what I'm goin to get is a Vintage Modified. Are they alot worse then CV?

You should play them side by side, along with a MIM and US Fender just so you can feel good about your purchase. I played the CV, VM, CV Jazz, and a Highway 1 all back to back (after handling all the P style Fenders in the shop for a couple hours and picking out the ones I liked the most). The CV was my favorite. I preferred the sound of the CV over the VM, it seemed like it was thicker and fuller. I thought the CV felt like better quality to me, but this is probably just personal preference. The CV I picked out was noticeably heavier than the VM I tried (no more than a standard Fender). I prefer the lacquered neck and headstock to the unfinished/satin finish on the VM. YMMV. It seems a LOT of guys like the VM a bunch, the only real way to know for sure is to go and look at them, play with them etc.

 

[Justin89]

i got a vm recently as well. i play the vm and cv back to back. i wouldnt say one was better than the other as much as they were just different. the cv has the finished neck it was thinner to if remember corectly and was a light blue (wich i think looks cooler than the natural mapple) and also had a rw fret board (wich a i so like better)

but really try to play them back to back through the same amp. its all personal preference when it comes to differences between these two

 

[Chewiem]

most squier basses used Agathis wood for the body (not the greatest..), there frets were not dressed as well, the electronics were not the greatest, necks were kinda uncomfortable and the hardware was not the best ether, BUT the classic vibes are something else. i don't know what happened, who is behind it but they are a genius
they have basswood body's (much better then agathis,) the hardware is fine, pickups sound amazing and the neck is very well done, imo it sounds better then the MIM standards, which are totally fine basses regardless.

if you can get the squier CV 60's jazz, then jump on it right away, you wont be sorry. or even the Vintage modified

 

[eyecandy]

Squier's do have different wood in them... and also cheaper electronics and different pots..
VM's have an all maple mody and neck, so they're brighter than Standard Fender basses.. but for the affinity Squiers, they're made of alder with agathis, so they won't really sound like a Fender, to my ears Fenders have more punch..

but Squiers make great backup basses, something that you won't need to worry when scratching it or like in a situation that you're on a gig, then a drunk guy suddenly showered your Vintage Fender with beer *yikes*

 

[odin70]

VM's have an all maple mody and neck, so they're brighter than Standard Fender basses

Strange..to my knowledge maple is more expensive than alder.