Double Bass What mic instead Neumann km 184/185 or Schoeps?

[tito mangialajo]

hello,
do you think It's a good option to buy a cheaper microphone for live use instead Neumann km184/185 or the Schoeps that Grenadier uses?
I'm thinkin' to:
Oktawa mk-012
Sennheiser e614
Rode nt-5
other options?
I really don't have 700 euro or more to spend in a mic...

 

[Ric Vice]

hello,
do you think It's a good option to buy a cheaper microphone for live use instead Neumann km184/185 or the Schoeps that Grenadier uses?
I'm thinkin' to:
Oktawa mk-012
Sennheiser e614
Rode nt-5
other options?
I really don't have 700 euro or more to spend in a mic...

Tito,
If you're looking at the mike for live performance take a look at the DPA 4099. It's less expensive and easy to add to your bass.

Ric

 

[M Ramsey]

I've heard Dennis Crouch sound incredible over a Shure SM-58. But, he's Dennis.

If you have the tendency to move around a lot while playing, go for something similar to the DPA or maybe an Audio-Technica mic, just clip it on, get your plaecment and have at it.

If you are very stable in your location, you could opt for something much, much cheaper that would be more roadworthy for day-to-day gigging.

If you don't know Dennis Crouch, you may not find much about him on the internet. But you can find him on the Plant/Krauss collaboration, on Elvis Costello recordings, the sound track for Crazy Heart (produced by T Bone Burnett, same as the Plant/Krauss stuff) and I think he's going to cut some studio stuff for Elton John.

He gets around and is one of the most personable people I have ever encountered.

 

[shinebass]

Hi,
I am using Sennheiser e614 trough Art TubeMP for almost two years now. They work really nice despite their pricetags. I haven't tried them in a studio, so I cannot comment on the supposed noise from the TubeMP (some people have tested that and deny any noise worth mentioning...). I go often just straight to the PA and floor monitors. If necessary, I add the Realist through Radial ProDI (passive, yet it works to my and many other pairs of ears). I have also used the e614 with TubeMP into my old Roland Cube (it used to be orange, now it's just dirty), and it works, too. Now I am thinking of getting a little bow to blend the mic/pickup signals, although I try to avoid the pickup as much as I can. The headway looks cool, the Ultrasound DI Max, too. Also, I'd love to try the new Phil Jones' Bass Cub BG-100.
The e614/TubeMP configuration I stole from Chicago bassist Jason Roebke who played my bass over here. The band was acoustic (two saxes, drums, bass) apart from the bass that used the mentioned pieces plugged into a GK head/Hartke 4x10 cabinet. It sounded better than so many things I've heard before that I immediately decidet to buy it. Especially when I saw how cheap both mic and pre are.

 

[Vincent P]

Heil PR40.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[martinc]

shinebass wrote:
" Now I am thinking of getting a little bow to blend the mic/pickup signals, although I try to avoid the pickup as much as I can. The headway looks cool, the Ultrasound DI Max, too."

shinebass: I have an Ultrasound DI Max. It is clean and excellent for blending but it does not have phantom power for the inputs. That means you cannot use a condenser mic with it. That's OK for me because I like dynamic mic's for blending with a pickup but it's something to think about before buying.
The phantom power function in the DI Max is only for running it without draining the battery.
The Headway can handle condenser mic's.

 

[shinebass]

thanks for the important detail. what i do not like about the headway is that it has one EQ for both channels. i do not think this is such a good thing when running a mic and a pickup through it. or am i wrong here?

 

[martinc]

thanks for the important detail. what i do not like about the headway is that it has one EQ for both channels. i do not think this is such a good thing when running a mic and a pickup through it. or am i wrong here?

shinebass:
Each input on the headway has its own gain control.

I found this on a post here on TB from John Littler who designed the unit:

"The idea behind mixing the signals together first, then EQ'ing the overall sound, was so that maximum options of EQ could be applied to a single channel, which would work for the majority of users, while at the same time keeping the device as simple to understand as possible. A single channel of EQ keeps the unit small and more reasonably priced, without additional power consumption that might have pushed it outside of useful life on regular 9V batteries. Simplicity also plays its part on a stage when viewing in low light levels etc.

Also, since the device is designed to amplify a single instrument in a mono format, generally through a single sound system, why not EQ the output signal overall. If done correctly, it is likely to add up to much the same result as multiple EQs. My thinking was very much about producing a practical device for live use, as opposed to studio engineers' specialist unit for recording etc."

____________________________________________

Hope this helps.
I have no connection to Headway...and don't own any of their products. Although if I liked condenser mics for live use I would certainly consider the Headway.
Looks like they are also coming out with a single channel unit too.
But now that I have used a two channel pre/DI... I don't think I would ever go back to one with a single channel.

 

[anonymous02282011]

hello,
do you think It's a good option to buy a cheaper microphone for live use instead Neumann km184/185 or the Schoeps that Grenadier uses?
I'm thinkin' to:
Oktawa mk-012
Sennheiser e614
Rode nt-5
other options?
I really don't have 700 euro or more to spend in a mic...

You should try the Beyer M88 if you don't mind using a floor mic stand

 

[shinebass]

thanks a lot for all the info, martinc!
right now i am thinking in order to imrpove my live sound whether to get myself first a dynamc mic (maybe an e604 II) or first the headway... it would probably have to be the headway since i've had more trouble with eliminating "that frequency" on some stages than the leakage. still, i've read in some posts that a lot can be done about the feedback by using the phase revese button (which i have on the art tube mp). heh, so maybe i'll get by without any additional expences. anyway i just want to keep it all simple as possible (and have that million dollar sound, of course).

 

[martinc]

shinebass:
Simple is good for sure.
It's easy to get carried away with all the gear that is now available to amplify a double bass.
Sometimes I wonder how much difference there is in the end result between a single pickup through a 150 dollar EQ/DI/preamp into the PA...and an expensive boutique amp/preamp with an expensive pickup-up and/or mic.
The main difference may be the peace of mind a player has knowing their equipment is the best that's available. But we are still processing an acoustic instrument electronically so the sound will always be a compromise. And do people at the back of the room really care as long as they can hear something that sounds like a bass?
Maybe an electric upright bass is not such a bad idea. An EUB is what it is. So we are not trying to live with a sound from an expensive acoustic instrument that we know is compromised.
I still do a lot of playing unamplified and I get to enjoy the full natural sound of my bass. If it was not for that I would probably go with an EUB. It would be heck of a lot more convenient for us old geezers.
Just some early morning random thoughts before my first coffee.......

 

[bolo]

You should try the Beyer M88 if you don't mind using a floor mic stand

Dig. Or an H-clamp for an extra $120 (U.S.). You can use a variety of mics w/ it, like a floor stand, but gives you more consistency if you "move around" some when you play.

I have been blending the M-88 TG w/ a Rev Solo pickup for a while now. Pretty happy with it. And I keep getting calls and compliments on my sound.

The DPAs do pique my interest.

Just read a "woody" review of the Neumann 184 on another web site. That one has been on my audition list for a while.

 

[martinc]

Dig. Or an H-clamp for an extra $120 (U.S.). You can use a variety of mics w/ it, like a floor stand, but gives you more consistency if you "move around" some when you play.

I have been blending the M-88 TG w/ a Rev Solo pickup for a while now. Pretty happy with it. And I keep getting calls and compliments on my sound.

The DPAs do pique my interest.

Just read a "woody" review of the Neumann 184 on another web site. That one has been on my audition list for a while.

Bolo:

How do you go about mixing your mic and your Rev Solo? Do you use the Solo for the main source and add a little of the mic to it...or is it the other way around?
Thanks.

 

[bolo]

Bolo:

How do you go about mixing your mic and your Rev Solo? Do you use the Solo for the main source and add a little of the mic to it...or is it the other way around?
Thanks.

Hey Martinc. In most situations, just a tad more pickup than mic, if you are just looking at the knobs. Like say mic at 9:00 and pickup no higher than 10:00. I am using a Focus 2R Series III.

In louder settings (which fortunately I have been getting away from), more pickup. The mic there just helps take the edge off. Like Demerol.

I recently switched strings to Garbos. Trying to sound more like Scott LaFaro on The Arrival of Victor Feldman, and they help. What a sound. I think they "mic up" better than the Spiro mediums I used for years.

P.S. I worked in Toronto and Oshawa in the early 90's. Loved it.

 

[martinc]

Hey Martinc. In most situations, just a tad more pickup than mic, if you are just looking at the knobs. Like say mic at 9:00 and pickup no higher than 10:00. I am using a Focus 2R Series III.

In louder settings (which fortunately I have been getting away from), more pickup. The mic there just helps take the edge off. Like Demerol.

I recently switched strings to Garbos. Trying to sound more like Scott LaFaro on The Arrival of Victor Feldman, and they help. What a sound. I think they "mic up" better than the Spiro mediums I used for years.

P.S. I worked in Toronto and Oshawa in the early 90's. Loved it.

Bolo:

Thanks for the information. I think using the mic the way you suggested makes a lot of sense.
I have a Rev Solo and a BassMax and have just bought an Audix D2. I have not had a chance to mix the mic with either of the pickups live yet so I have been fiddling around using my 2 channel Ultrasound DI Max and my amp (Yorkville of course!) here at home. I play a show in a couple of weeks so I hope to have some combination figured out by then to send direct to the PA.
I moved to Peterborough 6 years ago from up north and really like it here. Lots of rivers and lakes and a ton of music.
I'll be in Oshawa tomorrow.
Cheers.

 

[contrabart]

I use an Oktava MK-101 through an Arte Tube pre amp. Works fine, and is very easy to mount. No clamp needed, piece of foam under the bridge, and because of the shape of the 101 it doesn't fall through.