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Double Bass What note{s)

Don't know if this is where I post this or if it's been addressed before, and if it has, I apologize in advance.
I've been working on a couple of different songs and trying to figure out the bass lines for them, but I noticed that in a couple
of the chord progressions, they don't follow the normal sequence. There are some Maj7th Chords and some Dom. Chords.
My question is when you come across chord changes that are moving in either an upward or downward progression and
they are not complimentary to the key signature of the song, how do you know and/or figure out what bass notes/lines
would work with such a scenario.

Again, Thank You in Advance for any help.

George
 
You've left out some information that might help, like what kind of music (genre?) you're playing, so we can't really provide specific advice. What works in swing jazz may not be germane to pop or latin.

Furthermore, you don't need to think of chord progressions as moving "upward or downward." We DO need to evaluate the intervals (up and down) from one root note to the next. Once those intervals are firmly in mind, we can choose paths by which to traverse those intervals. Often, the song's melody may help us just as much as the chord progression.
 
So I assume you're talking about things like a tune in Eb, the lead sheet has three flats, but there's an A major chord? Play the notes that are correct for the chord. So even though the key signature has three flats, when you play over an A major chord, you'll play from A B C#,D E F# G# notes. (on bass, of course, A and E will be privileged. If you're looking at a melody that goes over that A major chord, there'll be accidentals.

Now there are certain passages in certain tunes where the melody does NOT follow with the chords; in which cases you have to rely on those things on the sides of your head. Do you follow the static melody or the moving harmony as you play bass? And you can always listen to what the masters have done on this tune or similar ones.
 
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Interesting thread especially as there is a similar one right now as well. It is the right question to be thinking about!

I would default to chord tones on the strong beats of the measure you are are on, and then construct a "bass melody" that leads to playing the root on the "1" of the next measure, often this means that beat 4 of the current measure will have a leading tone a half or a whole step above or below that (new) root note of the second measure. So if the first measure was C major and the second measure was Ab7 (clearly not in the key of C), I might just walk up to the G on beat 4 (example C-E-F-G) and then we would be a half step below the Ab, ready to pounce on the one (Ab). Then, it starts all over again on the Ab, but we would no longer be thinking in the key of C at that point.

For some chords, we may want to think of their function rather than the strict harmony implied by their chord tones. A lot of jazz is written around the idea of a ii (minor7), V (dominant 7), I (major or minor) progression. And sometimes this turns into say a iii-VI- ii-V-I (which is really just 2 ii-V-I progressions, one resolving to the other). Or, we may see a ii-V where the V then becomes minor in the next measure, and then a new ii-V begins. Example: Cm7-F7-Fm7-Bb7-Eb. You can work out a scale where only one note changes with each chord change. This is harmonic movement - Keyboard players are usually quite good at this. But its important look at where the harmony is leading - in this case the Eb. So the whole thing could be thought of in Eb. In this example the note Bb in the first chord drops to an A in the second chord which drops to an Ab in the 3rd chord, then you might emphasize the D (3rd) in the Bb7 chord before resolving to the Eb in the last chord. These are just important chord tones to outline the harmony, which the chordal instruments are already doing, but you are also expected to delineate the roots. That along with the groove is your job. So now you have two important notes for each chord, the root and the "important chord tone" and any additional notes can be thrown in just for connecting the two and leading to the next chord.

Often the most expressive notes you can play seemingly have no business being in the current measure, but if they clearly lead the listener to the next measure they are pure gold. Using the iii-VI-ii-V-I example (In C major: Em7-A7-Dm7-G7-C ): Assuming 2 beats on each chord you could play E Bb A Eb | D Ab G B | C. At first glance the Bb, Eb and Ab might seem to have no business in a progression that is clearly in the key of C (or nearly so, as the A7 is a slight variation). But if you try it you will see that these notes serve a simple function of getting you to the next chord as they are a half step above or below the next root. Of course you could also play the notes E B A E | D A G B | C and stay 100% inside the key, but this might sound too "square" or "inside". Then again you might want that, or may want a mix of the two.

You can spend a lifetime on this stuff! Ultimately if you are hitting the roots and holding the groove you are doing your job. The rest is style points. Not every measure needs to be perfect if you are holding down your job, and whatever measure you just played is not nearly as important as the next measure! :)
 
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One more thing: If you learn the melody for the song you may discover why these oddball chords are actually there. I.e. there is a note in the melody that is a chord tone in one of these oddball chords, which is why the composer threw it in in the first place. There are colorful notes to use, and using them shows you understand the song you're playing. But you don't want to over do it because your singer/horn player/lead instrument is probably already doing it. (Use sparingly, without too much emphasis, or if you get a chance to take a solo)
 
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One more thing: If you learn the melody for the song you may discover why these oddball chords are actually there. I.e. there is a note in the melody that is a chord tone in one of these oddball chords, which is why the composer threw it in in the first place. There are colorful notes to use, and using them shows you understand the song you're playing. But you don't want to over do it because your singer/horn player/lead instrument is probably already doing it. (Use sparingly, without too much emphasis, or if you get a chance to take a solo)
Well, a lot of the time chords appear to be an excursion from the main key of the tune but it's really just taking a tour through the circle of fourths.

One of the most stereotyped kinds of progressions in standards is the 1-6-2-5-1 or 1-3-6-2-5-1 progression. If you play C E7 A7 D7 G7 C, you're going through a lot of chords whose important tones are not in the C major key signature.
 
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And even one more thing..... Rereading your question I think you may be seeing chord substitutions. For example a ii-V-I progression in C could be written as Dm7, Db7, C major. Why is that Db7 there? It is just a tritone substitution of G7, which is a thing for dominant 7th chords. Both of these chords have the same 3rd and 7th (but reversed), and so serve the same function harmonically which is leading us to the tonic (or I chord). G7 has B and F as the 3rd and 7th, and Db7 has F and B (actually Cb) as 3rd and 7th, so harmonically they are interchangeable even if the root doesn't make immediate sense. This is where you have power as a bass player. Lets say you don't want to play the Db7. Just play the G7 instead - you would have just re-substituted the 5 chord, perhaps removing some character of the song but 100% harmonically accurate. The opposite is also true: if you see a typical Dm7 - G7 - C major progression and it seems a little boring on the 10th time through, substitute the Db7 instead of the G7 and see how it lands. If the keyboard player looks up and smiles, you pulled it off. If the singer spins around and glares at you, don't do it again. :)
 
Well, a lot of the time chords appear to be an excursion from the main key of the tune but it's really just taking a tour through the circle of fourths.

One of the most stereotyped kinds of progressions in standards is the 1-6-2-5-1 or 1-3-6-2-5-1 progression. If you play C E7 A7 D7 G7 C, you're going through a lot of chords whose important tones are not in the C major key signature.
Exactly. In this case the roots are all in the key, but the character of the chord (major, minor, dominant seventh) is altered as to its function (primarily leading to the next chord, or to support the melody, or just "bluesing it up"). This is the idea of the secondary dominant chord. Adam Neely has a video about this, around the song Take the A Train, I think. Or maybe it was Girl from Ipanema? (Amazing analysis by the way ---I will have to rewatch when I have time!)
 
The OP registered in May, but this was their first and only post yesterday morning. Their profile is empty, so we don't know anything about them, what instrument they play, what genre of music they are trying to understand and ... dare I say ... whether they will post to this thread or even read the responses.

I get the urge to start typing things, but honestly, it would make a lot of sense to see if they clarify their question or abandon this thread. If the later, I think it would be good to save the keystrokes, otherwise, we're just talkin' to ourselves about stuff.
 
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I think it would be good to save the keystrokes, otherwise, we're just talkin' to ourselves about stuff.
What kind of Business Model are you running here?
Sheesh.
we're just talkin' to ourselves about stuff.
This is de facto, the TB Mission Statement, isn't it?
Sheesh.
 
Short Answer:
You figure it out by either playing the piece in (using your ears and experience) or you analyze the melody and chord progression.

TLDR Answer:
Jazz tends to meander around a bit. When you see ii V chord relationships, it implies sort of a temporary key center. It's not necessarily clear whether the implied key is major or minor. Look to the melody and chord extensions. For example, a V9 chord generally implies a major I [for example G9 is V7 to CMaj7] and a V7b9 chord implies a minor i [for example G7b9 is V7 to Cmin7].

There are other chord relationships that imply temporary key centers. When you see a dominant 7 chord it usually functions as a V7 chord.

Diminished 7 chords can imply four different dom7 chords. The roots of the (potentially) implied dom7 chords are 1/2 step lower than each chord tone from the dim7 chord. Essentially each chord tone can serve as the b9 of an implied dom7 chord.

Cdim7 = C,Eb,Gb,Bbb. Consider emharmonic spellings, for example Bbb = A

Cdim7 can imply B7b9, D7b9, F7b9, or G#7b9.
  • B7b9 = B,D#,F#,A,C
  • D7b9 = D,F#,A,C,Eb
  • F7b9 = F,A,C,Eb,Gb
  • G#7b9 = G#,B#,D#,F#,A
Notes in bold are enharmonic to Cdim7.

Ref: Diminished Seventh Chord Function

Half-diminished 7 chords can also serve in place of Dom7 chords.

For clarification E half-dim7 is synonymous to Em7b5.

C9 includes Em7b5 || C,E,G,Bb,D

Ref: What is a m7(b5)? What is a half-diminished chord? - The Half-Diminished Chord - minor 7(b5) - m7(b5) chord - jazz - guitar -- Bruno Pelletier - Jazz Guitarist in San Francisco, CA - Jazz Guitar Lessons ZOOM - SKYPE - REMOTE - FACETIME - ONLINE - instruction - jazz improvisation - Bruno Pelletier-Bacquaert - Paris, France
 
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