Nah, no worry there -- misaligned strings won't warp the neck sideways.
Go with the loosen-nudge advice.
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What should I do about this bass neck?
- Thread starter WildStringdom
- Start date
Nah, no worry there -- misaligned strings won't warp the neck sideways.
Go with the loosen-nudge advice.
- Aug 5, 2005
- 7,243
- 92
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: J.C. Basses
WildStringdom said:
Your bass neck is consistently under 150+ lbs of tension and even without the truss rod doesn't bend that much. There are stories off people driving over their guitar necks without breakage. Laterally, your bass is equivalent to a baseball bat, which regularly sustain over 4 tons of force for 90 mph fastball and rarely break. How strong are you?
Loosen the strings and neck bolts and gradually pull the neck harder and harder until you see the neck start to really bend or you get tired. Tighten the neck bolts and strings and see if it fixed it.
Like I said in a previous post, I think the neck pocket is misaligned and I doubt you'll notice any improvement, but it's a risk-free 2-minute potential-fix that is worth the effort.
Turnaround
Commercial User
I'm a Canadian. Yank is a whole other thing up here. Not that there's anything wrong with that....
The advice from the two luthiers is correct in my opinion. The rest shows recklessness and disregard for both owner and his new instrument. Yea the yank statement sent up a red flag for me and everyone got a good laugh but what's really funny is how many people reading this thread are turned off by the caviler attitudes a lot of repair guys have towards their work, owners piece of mind and their instruments! At least I know now where all bolt on necks with wollered out screw holes come from. Those four screws, neck plate and neck pocket are the most overlooked innovation Leo came up with! Why? Because for the first time a professional instrument could be taken apart, inspected,repaired and put back together in a fraction of the time before. And as always, people have to cut corners and figure out how get more repairs done in an eight hour day so they yank,push,
pull,nudge,whatever you want to call it, get customers to turn their heads. Laugh all you want guys; I'm laughing too. The difference is I know why!
pull,nudge,whatever you want to call it, get customers to turn their heads. Laugh all you want guys; I'm laughing too. The difference is I know why!
which "two luthiers" are those?
and the reason for the "cavalier attitudes" is because folks that actually know how this stuff works know how trivial and easy a problem this is to fix, and how silly these overly complicated responses are from folks who apparently don't.
rest assured, the guys who do this for a living do so because they love it, and they have utmost respect for the instruments they work on.
and the reason for the "cavalier attitudes" is because folks that actually know how this stuff works know how trivial and easy a problem this is to fix, and how silly these overly complicated responses are from folks who apparently don't.
rest assured, the guys who do this for a living do so because they love it, and they have utmost respect for the instruments they work on.
Well, read the thread and find out for yourself! Really! A repair guy knows more about bass guitars than a luthier! I can assure you there's nothing trivial about a repair on a brand new instrument from a customer seeking assurance and advice!Hopefully one day you guys are going to realize there's more to repair than cordless screwdrivers and soldering irons and the actual work! Rest assured, if you can't explain to your potential customer what's wrong and how your going fix it in a professional manner that puts them at ease and allows them to have confidence in your abilities, that repair is going back out the front door! Keep making lite of it guys, your only digging the hole deeper!
Your point is valid, but misplaced.
As repair guys, we absolutely need to make the client clear on the job and comfortable that the instrument will be fixed properly. If they don't feel like we know what we're doing and care, we won't be in business very long.
It's just that typically in this case, the right fix is the quick and easy one, and it's the guy breaking out the drills and files who's damaging the instrument.
(and ive worked on plenty of beautifully-crafted luthier-built instruments that played and sounded terrible.)
So taking a few minutes for measurements and a flat piece of metal and looking at how much light can be seen at any not flat part is overly complicated?
Typically they do.
Builders build. What does that mean? It means that they fabricate parts and assemble them. Rarely do they disassemble completed instruments. Nor do they troubleshoot them for problems on a regular basis.
Analogy from an earlier post:
Builder vs. repairman:
Mechanics can build cars. Assembly line workers usually take their cars to mechanics for repairs. Their experience is building new cars, not fixing old ones.
Remodelers can build homes. Homebuilders usually have to learn how to tear things apart and put them back together. Their experience is with new homes, not with old ones.
The same is true with musical instrument builders and repairmen. These are very different disciplines. They are very different mindsets. Many repairman try building and abandon it because they find it boring.
Repair work takes a certain mindset and very different skills than building. When building it helps to know why, but as long as the design is sound it doesn't really matter. (Before the inevitable debate, consider how many luthiers/designers Fender et al employ as opposed to how many builders/assemblers on the payroll.) It is absolutely essential to understand why when doing repair work.
Major factories that have repair departments do so only as a necessity. It is regarded as a necessary evil. It is not a profit center. It produces only expense. By the way, the techs in the repair department are among the highest paid in the factory. Most factories do not have in house repair departments for this reason. They job it out to "warranty repair centers." They understand the problems and expense of maintaining a repair facility.
However, it is true that builders get all the glory. On the other hand, ask any touring pro who is more important: The manufacturer or his tech? Unless he has an endorsement deal, every one of his instruments is blueprinted by the tech.
- Aug 5, 2005
- 7,243
- 92
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: J.C. Basses
Sometimes, right out of the chute, you can't verify with 100% certainty where the problem lies. The safest approach to troubleshooting any issue is to start by testing the common associated problems that are easily reversible - it seems a somewhat obvious heirarchy. If someone came in with fret buzz, it only makes sense to check action and relief before going for a fret level & crown.
In OP's case, the neck appears to be misaligned. This is a common problem with bolt-on necks (especially in production basses that don't have neck joints that are perfectly flush) whereby the string tension, gravity, or some other force on the neck shifts it slightly in the imperfectly-routed pocket. The simple, common, unobtrusive solution is to loosen the neck bolts, apply some upward force to the neck to re-align it, and tighten it back up. If that didn't fix it, there may be other factors at play that will require more measurement and careful examination.
Guitars & Cars are apples and oranges and if you had any idea of the curriculum of becoming a luthier you would find repair at the base of study. I think if you took a minute and researched you would find that the people at Fodera, Sadowski, and the likes service their own instruments for there clients!Roger Sadowski was a repairman before he opened shop in N.Y.C. This is not a mass produced instrument and you are not working for a large manufacture! You work on a per job basis and every job is unique and if your customer does not feel that from you they will not return. What is scarey is how many of you are willing to stick your necks out there with a diagnosis based on one picture! Then the job comes in; it's more involved than what the picture shows but you have already quoted the job, but don't want to lose money so you get physical with someone property so you can get to next repair.Car Repair shops do not quote repairs that require diagnosis over the phone, The instrument is not in your hands; you know NOTHING about it! Corporation practices carry no weight in this debate. Corporations are not in business to handle situations on a personal level;you are!The hole is about to become a well!
Years ago while working as a carpenter's helper, I was taking 1/2 an hour to fit up and make perfect joints in the baseboard. My carpenter boss growled at me, "You should have finished the whole room by now, these ain't gran' pie-annas we're building. That's why the painter has a caulk gun."
Paul Flynn, a builder/repair person here in Santa Monica, did exactly this loosen and honk on the headstock fix for a Jazz bass copy I had. No charge but if it makes you feel better, pay someone to dick around with it for an hour being all methodical and stuff. You might not want to listen to me though; I don't fetishize my equipment and frequently let little kids have a go on my $4500 piano and a 6,000 cello and bow. What they might do to my $400 bass is trivial.
Mugre
Paul Flynn, a builder/repair person here in Santa Monica, did exactly this loosen and honk on the headstock fix for a Jazz bass copy I had. No charge but if it makes you feel better, pay someone to dick around with it for an hour being all methodical and stuff. You might not want to listen to me though; I don't fetishize my equipment and frequently let little kids have a go on my $4500 piano and a 6,000 cello and bow. What they might do to my $400 bass is trivial.
Mugre
- Aug 5, 2005
- 7,243
- 92
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: J.C. Basses
That's your choice; might not be O.P.'s. What $400 dollars means to you is not universal! He might have worked twice as long for that 400. Might not be so trivial. That $400 jazz copy might be their word. Who are you or repairmen to pass judgement on what is trivial and not!
Hate to be the one to break it to you: when the neck on a bolt-on instrument is misaligned, the first, I mean the very first thing you do, is to see if you can "creak" it, to realign the strings.
Another tip: Lay off the espresso, switch to decaf.
Another tip: Lay off the espresso, switch to decaf.
Cars and guitars are both objects that are frequently repaired. So as far as that Venn diagram goes, they do meet in the same area.
As far as curriculum, you have been arguing passionately with some heavy weight repairman for a couple of days now. These guys are at the top of the craft. Maybe less famous than Frank Ford, Dan Erlewine, or Bryan Galloup, but certainly as talented and accomplished.
You have named some factories. They are small companies. They do repair work. Roger worked as a repairman before he started building. He married Irving Sloan's daughter. Look him up if you want to do some research on repair.
Outside of these small factories, the reality of producing tens of thousands of instruments sets in. That is where the things fall through the cracks and repairs are far more frequent. And those folks do not want to be in the repair business. Fender, Martin, Gibson, Ibanez, the list goes on and on. They all have factory authorized repair programs because they do not want to deal with it themselves. Many of the people who have been posting sentiments that are in conflict with your own either hold these authorizations or have in the past.
Using exceptions does not prove a rule. However, they are frequently used by the uninformed to bolster weak arguments.
As far as long distance diagnosis goes, that is what is done here. While certainly not foolproof, many folks have learned a great deal on this forum. Probably saved some money, too. However, for a local customer, every pro on this board would examine the instrument before quoting a repair. But since this is the internet they do what they can to help. This particular repair is common. The diagnosis is simple. So is the remedy.
There was a time when a car could be fixed without hooking it up to a computer. The computer makes diagnosis quicker. It does not make the repair better. And when you have a flat tire you do not need a computer to diagnose the problem. Tire flat. Change tire. This repair is a flat tire.
Every pro here has qualified their answer by saying they work from the obvious to the more complex. That is how repair work is done. Somehow, that does not seem to quell your fears. That shows an incredible lack of understanding of the craft. There is nothing more to be done.
I didn't realize that there was such a deep animosity between "Luthiers" and "Repair Guys", or whatever this is all about. Good grief.
I'm certainly not going to try to help somebody by answering a simple technical question on this forum again.
I'm certainly not going to try to help somebody by answering a simple technical question on this forum again.
