Double Bass What to do??

[drurb]

There is an open hole in the back under the neck. It is not deep but it is open where something fell out.

Well, in my opinion, if leaving it alone is not appropriate because of practicality, then I'd fill it inconspicuously or, even better, opt for my other alternative which would be to go with a historically accurate and/or consistent modification. Just my $0.02 because you asked.

 

[Jake deVilliers]

"How about an English Rose,"

+1 on that! A Tudor Rose is the most appropriate suggestion yet.

 

[PB+J]

except it's not from the tudor period....

For what it's worth, I'm a historian for a living--US history, not music--and it seems to me that if make an effort to get it back to original but you simply can't, because you can't get any info, then there's nothing wrong with the bass bearing the marks of its own history. It's not going in a museum, it's going to be played.

I wondr how often mother of pearl or abalone would have been used for inlay? If I were to do the "S", I'd do it in two different woods, to match the purfling

 

[drurb]

...and it seems to me that if make an effort to get it back to original but you simply can't, because you can't get any info, then there's nothing wrong with the bass bearing the marks of its own history. It's not going in a museum, it's going to be played...

Perfect!

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

except it's not from the tudor period....

For what it's worth, I'm a historian for a living--US history, not music--and it seems to me that if make an effort to get it back to original but you simply can't, because you can't get any info, then there's nothing wrong with the bass bearing the marks of its own history. It's not going in a museum, it's going to be played.

I wondr how often mother of pearl or abalone would have been used for inlay? If I were to do the "S", I'd do it in two different woods, to match the purfling

Well I don't know what 'Rose' design would fit the period of 1800-1820 but my Gilkes from 1814 has an old Tailpiece with an Inlay and they both might be original. It has Paerl and silver with a Star in the middle of a circle.

Invalid Link Removed

It also has this simple Diamond design under the Button. The Purfling though is actually 7 layers (4 black and 3 white lines). Not really simple when you look with a magnifier glass.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

What's with these 'Diamonds' in the Backs here. The Fendt with a large Purfled half Diamond and the Gilkes with a smaller full Diamond. Are we on to something here? Is this yet another mystery that should be explored? The spooky part if these 'Diamonds' have any relation to each other is that Gilkes' pupil J.Hart's name is stamped inside the Fendt as well..

The inlay that was in there could have easily been something personal to the owner when it was made. Possibly even a family 'coat of arms'. The Back of this Bass is made from about the best wood I have ever seen on a Bass and according to Arnold Schnitzer, the hardest he recalls working on. When he worked on my Morelli he commented on how hard the wood was in the Back. Then came my Prescott in New England Curly (Tiger) Rock Maple. Next it was my Gilkes as he claimed the hardest yet until he got inside the Fendt to clean up the Back and said THIS is the hardest Back to date.

All those who have seen the Back have been shocked at its condition with only a slight fracture up at the treble side bend. The rest is crack-free! My Dodd was close in condition but not as nice. My Mystery Bass is also in great condition with just a few cracks and the Prescott had just a couple in its Flat Back as well. This Fendt was built with some graduation as it's thicker across the Lower Bout than the Upper Bout in some sort of proportion of width-to-thickness ratio. Too bad Fendt isn't here to see this Back still in near perfect condition after about 200 years.

 

[The BurgerMeister]

It was Michael Leiter. He got it from Gagnon and played it as-is off the boat. Then he sold it to either Bob or Oscar Zimmerman. I have to see if I can figure that out....

that's cool... thanks! the reason i asked is that Mike was my teacher at mcgill university (until his untimely passing). he had told me many stories about a ton of basses that he was buying/restoring/playing/selling during the 70s and 80s. he didn't get into any real specifics that i can remember, so i can't be more helpful to you about this bass in particular.
(actually, i bought a nice, also unnamed, mid 19th-century german or czech bass from him, as well as my jos. kun bow. but that's a whole other story.)

thanks again, and i really hope you find the perfect ornament for your bass! good luck!

 

[Basshole]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Kidding aside, how about a beer bottlecap from near where the bass was born? You did mention Bavaria...

 

[The BurgerMeister]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

mmmmmm..... rickard's red.

ooo!!! mmmmmm.... boreale.

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

that's cool... thanks! the reason i asked is that Mike was my teacher at mcgill university (until his untimely passing). he had told me many stories about a ton of basses that he was buying/restoring/playing/selling during the 70s and 80s. he didn't get into any real specifics that i can remember, so i can't be more helpful to you about this bass in particular.
(actually, i bought a nice, also unnamed, mid 19th-century german or czech bass from him, as well as my jos. kun bow. but that's a whole other story.)

thanks again, and i really hope you find the perfect ornament for your bass! good luck!

Maybe you can ask around if anyone you know or who studied with him in the 70s remembers that Fendt? I know about the Dall'aglio he plaed after the Fendt and the Gofriller he replaced it with.

Talking about Gofriller, he was one of the greatest makers ever and he came from Germany as did Fendt and Lott. Also, Panormo while of Italian birth, made his mark in England as did Fendt and his pupil and co-worker Lott also born in souther Germany near the Tyrol. So many connections here with makers and countries. I googled 'Panormo' and it's a city in Greece. Was his mother Greek?

 

[The BurgerMeister]

Maybe you can ask around if anyone you know or who studied with him in the 70s remembers that Fendt?

i'll give it a shot, but no promises! i'm not in close contact with any of my uni buddies... but i sure will keep it in mind!

you might also ask Brian Robinson, if you can. i think he's been the principal since Mike passed. Brian knew Mike quite well, and has been with the MSO since 1983... he may have some ideas! also, he's a really nice guy. probably won't have much to say about my skills as a double bassist, however...

i'll let you know if i come up with any other ideas!

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

i'll give it a shot, but no promises! i'm not in close contact with any of my uni buddies... but i sure will keep it in mind!

you might also ask Brian Robinson, if you can. i think he's been the principal since Mike passed. Brian knew Mike quite well, and has been with the MSO since 1983... he may have some ideas! also, he's a really nice guy. probably won't have much to say about my skills as a double bassist, however...

i'll let you know if i come up with any other ideas!

This Bass was in and out of Canada way before 1983. If he was around there 10 years earlier then maybe.. On your profile, there is no mention even of a DB. What's with that?

On the Bass, I think only Jacques Gagnon would know something about the Bass but with all the Bassses he dealt with, I doubt anyone would remember unless it was something special.

Maybe I should contact some shops in the UK and see if they know anything or even ask around.

 

[The BurgerMeister]

This Bass was in and out of Canada way before 1983. If he was around there 10 years earlier then maybe.. On your profile, there is no mention even of a DB. What's with that?

alas, i wish i still had my double bass. it was a thing of beauty. it currently resides at my parents' house in nj. i'm trying to get it back. (truth be told, they were the ones who invested most of the money for the bass. technically, it's theirs. they've been threatening to sell it for a while now, but.... we shall see. my mother rather likes to have it around, i think. it's really quite lovely, even as a "decorative ornament." )

my main instrument is bass guitar... though i try to learn every instrument i can get my hands on. i took double bass lessons/classes in high school and university... but i came to realize that it's not where my passions lie. as it were.

part of me thinks that that beautiful a bass should be in the hands of someone who'll play it. it's only fair.


oh, and about the bass... i would still give it a shot... you never know who or what Brian may know. it's up to you, though.

 

[The BurgerMeister]

oh, and profile updated.

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

alas, i wish i still had my double bass. it was a thing of beauty. it currently resides at my parents' house in nj. i'm trying to get it back. (truth be told, they were the ones who invested most of the money for the bass. technically, it's theirs. they've been threatening to sell it for a while now, but.... we shall see. my mother rather likes to have it around, i think. it's really quite lovely, even as a "decorative ornament." )

my main instrument is bass guitar... though i try to learn every instrument i can get my hands on. i took double bass lessons/classes in high school and university... but i came to realize that it's not where my passions lie. as it were.

part of me thinks that that beautiful a bass should be in the hands of someone who'll play it. it's only fair.


oh, and about the bass... i would still give it a shot... you never know who or what Brian may know. it's up to you, though.

What kind of Bass is it over there in NJ. I am right next to NJ and can get to any part in an hour or 2 (or3) end to end depending on traffic.. So.. Should I go grab it for you?

 

[tobytimber]

...but could it have been something like this? You could fill the hole with sealing wax and press your seal into it, then, whoever owns it after you could scrape the wax out and do their own seal. The stuff is quite durable and could be more or less flush with the sides of the hole, so no risk of ripping it out or wearing it off.
Just an idea, you see it quite a bit on other bowed instruments.

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

...but could it have been something like this? You could fill the hole with sealing wax and press your seal into it, then, whoever owns it after you could scrape the wax out and do their own seal. The stuff is quite durable and could be more or less flush with the sides of the hole, so no risk of ripping it out or wearing it off.
Just an idea, you see it quite a bit on other bowed instruments.

Ok, I have a plan now that would be personal and possibly Historical. Thanks Toby for the Violin Pic. Makes me feel better about the whole inlay thing. I will most likely try an Ebony disc, slightly raised with rounded edges finishing flush at the roundover. Then we will 'engrave' and S in the center (for Smith like my logo) and also engrave a smaller letters 'B' and 'F' (for Bernhard Fendt) on either side of the 'S' (in some script that we can find). I would have Arnold (or myself) glue this in rather than use wax. Hide glue can always be unglued. If it falls out, I will use something a bit stronger the second time.

The engraving will only be visible close up and will be tactfully done. I will think of several other things as well in the mean time but when it's 'crunch time', I will have to 'pull the trigger' with something.

 

[The BurgerMeister]

What kind of Bass is it over there in NJ. I am right next to NJ and can get to any part in an hour or 2 (or3) end to end depending on traffic.. So.. Should I go grab it for you?

i could never identify the bass with a maker. there was no visible tag or mark on the inside (just lots of patchwork). i'm sure if i did a very thorough search of the bass and some historical resources, i'd find out. only thing i know is that it's a German or Czech bass from ca. 1850-1875. and it's very heavy, and it's a flatback. oh, and it's truly beautiful (but i think i already said that).



i guess... as long as you don't bother my parents... vanish!!

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

i could never identify the bass with a maker. there was no visible tag or mark on the inside (just lots of patchwork). i'm sure if i did a very thorough search of the bass and some historical resources, i'd find out. only thing i know is that it's a German or Czech bass from ca. 1850-1875. and it's very heavy, and it's a flatback. oh, and it's truly beautiful (but i think i already said that).



i guess... as long as you don't bother my parents... vanish!!

Post some pics of it and we can try nailing down the origin a little.. maybe!

On Topic here, I made a small Disc in paper and taped it to a pic of the back. I showed this to my son (the comp wiz one, not the bassist) and he will pull off the BF label, Smith Logo and try to photoshop the emblem inlaid into the back. I will then post it for a yea or nea if we can figure out how to..

 

[simandlhandle]

Ken- I love your bass guitars, and I think the logo on them looks good. It identifies your product in a busy marketplace. I see that you have spent a lot of money on authentically restoring many old double basses, and that shows a lot of consideration and love for these instruments.
Don't get me wrong, it is not a big deal. You own the bass, and can do what you want with it. I just don't see the point of putting your logo, or initial, on it in a visible, permanent way, except for the reason of ego. You wanted opinions on what to do with the unsightly blemish, and I suggested a rose motif. It wasn't meant as a historical comment " Tudor" rose. The English rose is still used as a symbol of England, which is where they bass was made, all be it by a German or Italian. Its an anonymous symbol of geography, in use when the bass was made and still in use today.
I believe that some Japanese firms own Stradavarius Violins, and loan them to players who couldn't afford them. What would be your feeliings of the "Nike", or "Yamaha" logo used on one of these instruments? Its no big deal I suppose, but I'm just glad that no previous owner inlay initialled any of my basses.

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Ken- I love your bass guitars, and I think the logo on them looks good. It identifies your product in a busy marketplace. I see that you have spent a lot of money on authentically restoring many old double basses, and that shows a lot of consideration and love for these instruments.
Don't get me wrong, it is not a big deal. You own the bass, and can do what you want with it. I just don't see the point of putting your logo, or initial, on it in a visible, permanent way, except for the reason of ego. You wanted opinions on what to do with the unsightly blemish, and I suggested a rose motif. It wasn't meant as a historical comment " Tudor" rose. The English rose is still used as a symbol of England, which is where they bass was made, all be it by a German or Italian. Its an anonymous symbol of geography, in use when the bass was made and still in use today.
I believe that some Japanese firms own Stradavarius Violins, and loan them to players who couldn't afford them. What would be your feeliings of the "Nike", or "Yamaha" logo used on one of these instruments? Its no big deal I suppose, but I'm just glad that no previous owner inlay initialled any of my basses.

Where would I get such a thing to inlay in the Bass other than to make it. I don't know what was in there before but due to the oxidation in the circle I would say it's been missing since before I was born.

As I mentioned, I am making a piece in photoshop to post for opinions. The S can also stand for Simon as in Bernhard "Simon" Fendt. It will be bSf using the B and S from the 1811 label from the Violing posted earlier and the S from my Logo or something similar that fits.

Link Removed


An English Rose on a Fendt may seem out of place as he was born in the Tyrol and learned in Paris before moving to London.

The Ebony Disc will be engraved and not inlaid. I may color in the engraving lines with dark wood fill but it will not be visible from more than a few feet away.