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What to play over dense backing tracks?

B

bassCanadabass

Jan 25, 2009
265
74
#1
Hi Justin,

I'm preparing for a live project that has some dense, synth heavy backing tracks and I'm struggling to create bass guitar parts.

Following the synth bass with pick + dirt is ok, but I'm unsure if its actually making it better.
For the thicker parts, it's hard to compete with synths for low end & sustain.

Any tips?

The new Liza Anne single rips btw! New M83 is stunningly beautiful too, thanks so much!



Here's the artist if anyones curious (DYLYN):

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#2
I hope you don't mind me stepping in a little here - very aware I am not JMJ, and also keen to hear his thoughts on this topic.

However, I feel I have some relative experience with this matter that can hopefully be of some help...

In general I would suggest avoiding playing over dense backing tracks and instead finding a way of either creating a complimentary part (which it sounds like you have been trying to do), or ideally removing as much bass from the backing tracks as possible and finding a way of playing these live. Then it's a case of either recreating the sounds/parts on bass guitar with effects, or on a synth, or alternatively a reinterpretation of the part with something that performs the same role/function.

This then presents a few questions: can the backing tracks be changed/edited/EQ'd? what gear are you using/have available to use? are you able to play synth?

If your only option is to play over the backing track as-is, I would look into the possibility of carving out some space for your bass to fit within the tracks - i.e. EQ'ing the tracks so there is some kind of gap that the bass can sit within so as not to clutter things up.

I hope some of that proves helpful.
 
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#3
This is a challenging and modern problem. When the tracks and/or synth bass are thick, I'd recommend you systematically consider these options for each song. And not just one of these options, it is very likely to be a combination of two or more of these options below...and, to complicate this further, each section of a song could very well be an entirely different look:

1) Can you go high?
2) Can you add a melodic counterpoint? Or could you double or harmonize with a melody or countermelody that exists in the track?
3) Can you be a rhythmic counterpoint? Or could you play along with an existing rhythmic counterpoint? Consider what a percussionist would do, if they were to be faced with the same issue.
4) Can you evaluate where there's room in the track frequency-wise, and make your bass fit there? Would some very specifically-designed effects help this particular option?
5) Can you not play?

I have been battling on this front for nigh a quarter of a century now from the bassist perspective, the MD perspective, and the producer perspective, and frankly wish I could do a class on it. I know that's the last thing many of you would expect me to say, considering my shyness/aversion to doing clinics, lessons or whatever. But frankly, it's an area I think I could help folks with. I have fair number of strategies in this minefield that are hard to illuminate via typing, it would be worth some demonstrations and some healthy two-way discussions. Anyway....a very good question. I hope the above is of some help, along with the thoughts from sifrancis. I hope some other homies chime in as well, because this is important to say the least.

J
 
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#5
jmjbassplayer said:
This is a challenging and modern problem. When the tracks and/or synth bass are thick, I'd recommend you systematically consider these options for each song. And not just one of these options, it is very likely to be a combination of two or more of these options below...and, to complicate this further, each section of a song could very well be an entirely different look:

1) Can you go high?
2) Can you add a melodic counterpoint? Or could you double or harmonize with a melody or countermelody that exists in the track?
3) Can you be a rhythmic counterpoint? Or could you play along with an existing rhythmic counterpoint? Consider what a percussionist would do, if they were to be faced with the same issue.
4) Can you evaluate where there's room in the track frequency-wise, and make your bass fit there? Would some very specifically-designed effects help this particular option?
5) Can you not play?

I have been battling on this front for nigh a quarter of a century now from the bassist perspective, the MD perspective, and the producer perspective, and frankly wish I could do a class on it. I know that's the last thing many of you would expect me to say, considering my shyness/aversion to doing clinics, lessons or whatever. But frankly, it's an area I think I could help folks with. I have fair number of strategies in this minefield that are hard to illuminate via typing, it would be worth some demonstrations and some healthy two-way discussions. Anyway....a very good question. I hope the above is of some help, along with the thoughts from sifrancis. I hope some other homies chime in as well, because this is important to say the least.

J
Click to expand...
I don't know that there's much else to say between what you and sifrancis said. Basically search for a hole and fill it.
 
#6
jmjbassplayer said:
I have been battling on this front for nigh a quarter of a century now from the bassist perspective, the MD perspective, and the producer perspective, and frankly wish I could do a class on it. I know that's the last thing many of you would expect me to say, considering my shyness/aversion to doing clinics, lessons or whatever. But frankly, it's an area I think I could help folks with. I have fair number of strategies in this minefield that are hard to illuminate via typing, it would be worth some demonstrations and some healthy two-way discussions. Anyway....a very good question. I hope the above is of some help, along with the thoughts from sifrancis. I hope some other homies chime in as well, because this is important to say the least.
Click to expand...
Thinking about it, maybe you might not want to take it on the road, but a Facebook Live thing or even a Youtube vid where you might dissect a handful of examples and talk about your strategies would be a great thing. I'd certainly watch it and I know it would interest many others.
 
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#7
I left a band over this kind of problem coupled with a personality issue, but I felt like I wasn't needed as a bass player when what they really needed was just a subwoofer for their synth parts.
I liked the sounds, but I wasn't having any fun playing my parts while also dealing with a couple strong egos ( mine included). Perhaps if I had more experience and creativity I could have continued with them.
 
#8
RiffwRiter said:
I left a band over this kind of problem coupled with a personality issue, but I felt like I wasn't needed as a bass player when what they really needed was just a subwoofer for their synth parts.
I liked the sounds, but I wasn't having any fun playing my parts while also dealing with a couple strong egos ( mine included). Perhaps if I had more experience and creativity I could have continued with them.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear this. If there isn't space, there isn't space. But the fact is, with creative minds working cooperatively, there's usually a space and a role to inhabit that could end up being invaluable. Usually. However, if personalities and egos are too strongly at play, the whole thing could be rendered moot. Anyway, I understand. Off to warmer climes!
 
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#12
pbass2 said:
One other thing to maybe throw in the hat for consideration: could you play a different instrument on some of these songs, like guitar, another keyboard part, whatever? I ended up playing mandolin once in a situation like this on a couple tunes and it was pretty rad fun:)
Click to expand...

Exaaaaaaactly Pt. 2. Same for me with Beck, Air, Nine Inch Nails. With NIN I played guitar, keys, upright, mandolin, percussion. In Air I also played keys. With Beck I played keys, guitar, drums, marimba, percussion, and acted the fool/drank wine or tequila/jumped into the crowd/screamed into the mic/bled on stage. Whatever it takes.
 
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#13
jmjbassplayer said:
Exaaaaaaactly Pt. 2. Same for me with Beck, Air, Nine Inch Nails. With NIN I played guitar, keys, upright, mandolin, percussion. In Air I also played keys. With Beck I played keys, guitar, drums, marimba, percussion, and acted the fool/drank wine or tequila/jumped into the crowd/screamed into the mic/bled on stage. Whatever it takes.
Click to expand...
I saw you pull off a pretty decent lead on one of those NIN songs. I forget which one, but I was pretty impressed with your skillZ.
 
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#16
nickonbass1 said:
Some might consider this to be not a problem. As the synths are taking care of low end affairs, could be an opportunity for you to unleash your inner Hooky, whack on some effects & bang out some nice high melodic counter points, up at the dusty end? :)
Click to expand...

I haven't spoken to my inner Hooky in a while. :sour: There was that one night in Vegas. Now he doesn't return my calls.
 
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