What to play over specific guitar chords

[KingRazor]

I have no problem with modes, they just haven't ever done anything for me.

 

[TL5]

Yes, you are right. I was not pointing to the chart and suggesting those were polychords, rather how it should be done. And that the way the chords are notated is confusing.

The polychord labeled chords are indeed slash chords. Sorry for not being clear.

My impression of the posted chart is that the arranger or copyist does NOT know what they are doing.

That chart came from the music publisher. It has the rhythm score (portion posted) as well as the notation for individual instruments, including orchestral instruments not on the original recording.
It would be interesting to hear why they chose to mark it that way.

Also, the chart the OP had appears to be the Baloche version of the song not the Brewster (co written and both artists have recorded the song). The piece that I posted was the Brewster version, sorry for the confusion there.

 

[Stick_Player]

It would be interesting to hear why they chose to mark it that way.

There are many incorrectly published things. This arranger/editor/publisher doesn't know the customary rules of rhythm chart notation - that's all.

 

[narud]

If you do study modes/scales or whatever people want to call it "here", it will give you the informations that is hidden most of the time. For example in the key of D from the OP, the A chord is not define as a dominant and some newbies might think that the Major scales can be used over the D, the G and the A. Which would of course introduce wrong notes like the C and G# as scale tones.

Anyway, I just think that there is only benefits from learning your modes/scales and arpeggios built from the major scales because they also function right from the bat in a piece of music.
It should be introduce in the lessons imo ( and this is what I do anyway in my classes) right after the major scale is taught.

Even if some people think it is wrong' I know from all my years as a pro that it is sooooo right to do so

BTW just check my sig, it will give you a clue of what I'm talking about

its not hidden at all. if know what key youre in, you know what notes are available to play. newbies wouldnt be confused over what notes to play over the A chord in the key of D in the first place if people werent teaching "play this scale over that chord". why would they play a G# if what notes in the key of D were being reinforced ?

 

[Groove Master]

its not hidden at all. if know what key youre in, you know what notes are available to play. newbies wouldnt be confused over what notes to play over the A chord in the key of D in the first place if people werent teaching "play this scale over that chord". why would they play a G# if what notes in the key of D were being reinforced ?

Because a newbie might not know the relationship that exist within a tonality and if there is only A-G and D as chord symbols he/she might think that the major scale can be play over each one of them which would be wrong.

Actually with these 3 triads if you don't have one of the chord with the b7 it could easily be a chord progression in A major instead with I-IV and bVII instead of a I-IV-V in D or even a chord progression in G major with a A7 as a secondary dominant to D as the V which would create a II7-V7-I in G major. Which would change all the chords functions and scales.

 

[narud]

Because a newbie might not know the relationship that exist within a tonality

and theres the rub. why not teach one thing(the notes available to you within the key) vs a whole bunch of stuff (play this scale over that chord).

 

[Groove Master]

and theres the rub. why not teach one thing(the notes available to you within the key) vs a whole bunch of stuff (play this scale over that chord).

Because it is an incomplete way to look at it because you don't focus on chord tones and arpeggios.

I like to solo over a set of chords with the major scale but to construct an effective bassline, I prefer to introduce the concept of arpeggios ans scales. Just stronger imo.

 

[narud]

Because it is an incomplete way to look at it because you don't focus on chord tones and arpeggios.

looking at what key youre in doesnt mean play a blanket major scale over the entire progression. all of those chords tones and arpeggios are built from the key information.

 

[Groove Master]

looking at what key youre in doesnt mean play a blanket major scale over the entire progression. all of those chords tones and arpeggios are built from the key information.

Yeah but you need to introduce them first to newbies. They need to know their basics 3-parts and 4-parts arpeggios if you want them to know what to choose from imo.

 

[capnsandwich]

Roots, my brutha! Roots!

Guitar chord-Bass note
Asus-A
G2-G
D-Duh
Bm7-B
Em7-E
Bm9-B

 

[busta_bird]

Thanks for the help guys, I'm very grateful. I've spent the last few days working through the first posts by Malcom and bass12. You guys really went in depth and I greatly appreciate it. I'll likely have many questions after I let it sink in. I'm playing roots on another song and it just doesn't sound right. I've found the notes that fit, and it isn't the roots of the chords being played. I'm assuming I'm doing something wrong, but I want to figure it out. Thanks again!

 

[sacbill]

Check out some Zappa, you'll hear chords with "2's" all over the place.

Great bit of video here with Ruth Underwood talking about FZs use of the "2 chord" as part of his signature sound: Frank Zappa - Saint Alphonzo's Pancake Breakfast - YouTube

Thanks to everyone for their input on this thread; I'm enjoying it immensely.

 

[GeoffT]

Because a newbie might not know the relationship that exist within a tonality and if there is only A-G and D as chord symbols he/she might think that the major scale can be play over each one of them which would be wrong.

Actually with these 3 triads if you don't have one of the chord with the b7 it could easily be a chord progression in A major instead with I-IV and bVII instead of a I-IV-V in D or even a chord progression in G major with a A7 as a secondary dominant to D as the V which would create a II7-V7-I in G major. Which would change all the chords functions and scales.

Because it is an incomplete way to look at it because you don't focus on chord tones and arpeggios.

I like to solo over a set of chords with the major scale but to construct an effective bassline, I prefer to introduce the concept of arpeggios ans scales. Just stronger imo.

Yeah but you need to introduce them first to newbies. They need to know their basics 3-parts and 4-parts arpeggios if you want them to know what to choose from imo.

Funny, when I recommended that EXACT same thing, learning and using chord tones before scales and modes with respect to the OP of how to create a line over a chord progression, you argued adamantly against that in a couple of replies.

I even recommended learning harmony and modes and how it all fits together, just that chords should come first with respect to what to play over a set of changes because it is the easiest to apply: see chord, play those notes. You then went on to say that I was against learning modes and harmony and chord function.

 

[narud]

Great bit of video here with Ruth Underwood talking about FZs use of the "2 chord" as part of his signature sound: Frank Zappa - Saint Alphonzo's Pancake Breakfast - YouTube

Thanks to everyone for their input on this thread; I'm enjoying it immensely.

awesome!

 

[dmrogers]

Did someone teach you the harmonic functions of the modes from the major scale and the Harmonic minor scale? Everything is pretty much all there imo.
Then each mode of melodic minor scale is useful especially for us bass players because a lot of infos are hidden gems for us in our bass parts always imo.

I think there is just a lack of practical examples when these things are taught.

I will start a thread about how we can play modes and how to actually hear the difference and how to use them.

OK. That would be great.

Let me first say, I am no music scholar, I have been playing off and on for most of my life, and I do pretty good with it. I don't study 6 hours a day, or play professionally. I do study, and work on theory and reading. I also work on just trying to learn a song by listening to it and figure the song out.

I can construct chords, and know my scales pretty well.

NOW, here is the challenge:

Most of the times on this forum when the subject of modes come up, you have people that are on either side. Both defending their position. Some convey their stance pretty well while others defend their stance with lots of talk, however, you can't take the words and actually apply them.

I somewhat understand modes. I still struggle with how/when to properly use them.

For example, many people come on the forum and state that the only way to use/know a mode is to start on a degree of a major scale. OK, so..........

I would welcome you taking the time to explain to the rest of us that might be confused or even having trouble finding a logical point to apply the mode portion of theory. So by all means, create a post, you would have my undivided attention. I want to learn all I can.

And please understand, this is not a snide or smart*** post. I am sincere and welcome the fact that you want to unselfishly share your knowledge.

I also full well understand you can't give away all your tricks, then people wouldn't buy your books, but honestly, I haven't seen anything in this thread yet that would entice me.

 

[Groove Master]

OK. That would be great.

Let me first say, I am no music scholar, I have been playing off and on for most of my life, and I do pretty good with it. I don't study 6 hours a day, or play professionally. I do study, and work on theory and reading. I also work on just trying to learn a song by listening to it and figure the song out.

I can construct chords, and know my scales pretty well.

NOW, here is the challenge:

Most of the times on this forum when the subject of modes come up, you have people that are on either side. Both defending their position. Some convey their stance pretty well while others defend their stance with lots of talk, however, you can't take the words and actually apply them.

I somewhat understand modes. I still struggle with how/when to properly use them.

For example, many people come on the forum and state that the only way to use/know a mode is to start on a degree of a major scale. OK, so..........

I would welcome you taking the time to explain to the rest of us that might be confused or even having trouble finding a logical point to apply the mode portion of theory. So by all means, create a post, you would have my undivided attention. I want to learn all I can.

And please understand, this is not a snide or smart*** post. I am sincere and welcome the fact that you want to unselfishly share your knowledge.

I also full well understand you can't give away all your tricks, then people wouldn't buy your books, but honestly, I haven't seen anything in this thread yet that would entice me.

Please, go visit my thread and experiment with my first post.

 

[Stick_Player]

NOW, here is the challenge:

Most of the times on this forum when the subject of modes come up, you have people that are on either side. Both defending their position. Some convey their stance pretty well while others defend their stance with lots of talk, however, you can't take the words and actually apply them.

I somewhat understand modes. I still struggle with how/when to properly use them.

For example, many people come on the forum and state that the only way to use/know a mode is to start on a degree of a major scale. OK, so..........

I would welcome you taking the time to explain to the rest of us that might be confused or even having trouble finding a logical point to apply the mode portion of theory. So by all means, create a post, you would have my undivided attention. I want to learn all I can.

I would point you to Pacman's sure-fire scale practice method.

He clearly addresses the confusion presented by some based on their misunderstanding of Modes.

 

[dmrogers]

I would point you to Pacman's sure-fire scale practice method.

He clearly addresses the confusion presented by some based on their misunderstanding of Modes.

Yes, I have checked out PacMan's thread, and used his exercise. Works great.