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What tone do you send?
- Thread starter OriginalCrash
- Start date
You might never know. Beside that, before you could get to anyone, it would be made very clear, to my people, you are one of the most difficult people I had ever worked with.
When are you in the Detroit area next?
No you're not , and the soundman isn't either.
The final arbiter is the public.
So I restate my question ; did that gig sounded good , from the public stand point?
Then yes , it's a good decision to take a $10 DI instead of a $200000...
I'm a bassist and a "sound guy," and while I'm an amateur (as in not a paid professional) at both and haven't been doing them for decades, I do have some decent experience at both. It's a touchy subject at times... If the sound man is hired by the venue, then he's working for them, not the band... So if the venue specifically makes demands on what equipment is used, etc., I imagine he's gonna do what the guys writin' the checks want (and wouldn't blame him for it). That said, excluding a specific situation like that, it is a sound man's job first and foremost to faithfully reproduce the band's sound to the FOH. Now, part of that should include a good knowledge of the room acoustics and the specific PA equipment... but that knowledge should be used in the context of getting the band's sound they're going for out to the audience. It should not be a case of "I know this equipment and this room, and I don't think the tone the bassist is going for is going to sound as good FOH as this other tone I could get out of him." This is, after all, sound reinforcement. If the sound man is significantly changing the sound of the band (EVEN if it others would agree it sounds better... if that's the case, hopefully the band would listen and be open to those changes/suggestions), then he's not doing proper sound reinforcement. All that said, if the sound guy is competent and the bassist (or any other musician) has a willing attitude, all that should be able to be accomplished without fighting (even if it means a sound guy *GASP* miking a cab or a bassist using a DI or a different mic). I think both sides of this argument have been burned before and so the emotions are running high, but I also think both sides make valid points. But it does all come back to this... A sound man's job is to faithfully recreate the sound of the musical act through FOH to the best of his ability (using his knowledge and experience with equipment, acoustics, etc.).
P.S. For what it's worth, I was running sound long before I was playing an instrument... and this has always been my attitude/approach from the beginning.
P.S. For what it's worth, I was running sound long before I was playing an instrument... and this has always been my attitude/approach from the beginning.
The best advice you gave today , Jimmy !
You should read your advice a couple of times , then repeat it high voice....
I don't know about you Jimmy , but personaly , when I deal a contract ,
I always write that the equivalent equipement will be available. So these situations never happens.
Again if the promoter did his job right and read your "rider" , he would have known , then he would have either left it like that or dealt it on the contract with your booker.
You guys have that attitude on a convention/corporate gig ?
Um, no. Soundmen are free to pursue a mix any way they see fit as long as it fits in with our band aesthetic. If he mixes sound in a way we don't like, you should see how quickly Bowzer springs into action and gets that rectified.
Again, it's not an attitude. We are the easiest people in the world to get along with. Just give us what we want and no funny stuff and you don't hear a peep out of us. And just to make it clear that I actually do know my role, WE don't have that kind of attitude about board placement. Bowzer does.
I'm getting a little irritated with being painted as difficult. I am not the least bit difficult as long as you give me what I want and don't try to interfere with how I do my job, and that includes the delivery system to the PA that I choose. I have very good reasons for wanting what I want, and I don't like to be second guessed by someone who thinks they know more than me. 95% of the soundmen I work with have no problem with anything I want to do and can always put together a great mix. What's with you five percenters?
Our soundman knows how much I'm into my tone, so what I have him do is to try to keep my tone as close to what I hear on stage only tweaking what comes through the PA in acorrdence to what is needed in a particular venue.
Well if you're in an act the can have the PA of your choice at each gig, then I understand a little more that Diva attitude. I tought you were using the PA 's available at the gig ......
90-95% of the gigs I do as a bass player are corporate and Casino gigs.These gigs are Client first , artist second.
Not the same philosophy at all.
What PA do you choose on all your gigs ?
You choose the PA or your soundman does ?
I'm not going to keep arguing this over and over with you when I should have ignored you the second you called me stupid.
I send them my P bass with me playing it...
I did a 9 month 'ampless' gig, no pre, just straight to console with 12" monitors on stage
no problem, It sounded like me playing my P
I did a 9 month 'ampless' gig, no pre, just straight to console with 12" monitors on stage
no problem, It sounded like me playing my P
Oh, so to be considered "mature" by you, I have to allow myself to be manipulated by the soundman and not be allowed to do what I want to do? That's funny.
Anyway, I have to go do my gig with a soundman who actually gets what we're trying to do and works with us instead of against us. Have a good time demoralizing the bands you work with, dude.
Anyway, I have to go do my gig with a soundman who actually gets what we're trying to do and works with us instead of against us. Have a good time demoralizing the bands you work with, dude.
Mature is to know it's role, if you are a bass player.
People I work have ave a certain respect for the soundman's job and I really appreciate that.
Never happened to me.
People I work have ave a certain respect for the soundman's job and I really appreciate that.
I wish I was playing enough to have a standard system with a sound man. When i have done Theater and club gigs my rig can get plenty loud enough to cover it with minimum support from the FOH sound, but I find this to be a huge problem. The lightbulb moment for me happened when I started reading about EQ.
We use to play this old time movie theater. Sits about 700 or so with a big balcony. The room is really big and airy. For the first couple of gigs my bass was extremely boomy. I use to think it was the soundman's fault. Overall we were too loud for the room and I thought it was the soundmans fault. Turns out that the soundman was just trying to balance the room with the stage volume. My EQ was set to where I liked to hear it when I was on stage, plus my rig was turned up. Boy it sound great on stage, but I have a theory why it sounded like crap to the audience. The sound guy had limited control over the entire bands sound. Specifically because I was pumping so much air off the stage.
I am sure he would have rolled back my bass EQ and punched the mids mores to bring me out if he could. He also would have brought the entire band down volume wise. Our sound board recordings which I think were taken from the FOH signal were never balanced. You could hardly hear the bass on the recording because most of live sounds was produced by my amp.
After I made that realization I started giving as much control to the soundman as possible. I set my stage volume to a good feel at relative low volumes and then ask for lots of bass in my monitors. I really like hearing myself. I realize that random sound crews will not always get your exact sound dialed in. If they suck, there is usually not much you can do about it unless if you know way in advance. FOH sound is a completely different beast. You really have to work with a good crew several times to dial it in correctly or have someone in the audience help guide the sound guy in shaping the band's sound.
We use to play this old time movie theater. Sits about 700 or so with a big balcony. The room is really big and airy. For the first couple of gigs my bass was extremely boomy. I use to think it was the soundman's fault. Overall we were too loud for the room and I thought it was the soundmans fault. Turns out that the soundman was just trying to balance the room with the stage volume. My EQ was set to where I liked to hear it when I was on stage, plus my rig was turned up. Boy it sound great on stage, but I have a theory why it sounded like crap to the audience. The sound guy had limited control over the entire bands sound. Specifically because I was pumping so much air off the stage.
I am sure he would have rolled back my bass EQ and punched the mids mores to bring me out if he could. He also would have brought the entire band down volume wise. Our sound board recordings which I think were taken from the FOH signal were never balanced. You could hardly hear the bass on the recording because most of live sounds was produced by my amp.
After I made that realization I started giving as much control to the soundman as possible. I set my stage volume to a good feel at relative low volumes and then ask for lots of bass in my monitors. I really like hearing myself. I realize that random sound crews will not always get your exact sound dialed in. If they suck, there is usually not much you can do about it unless if you know way in advance. FOH sound is a completely different beast. You really have to work with a good crew several times to dial it in correctly or have someone in the audience help guide the sound guy in shaping the band's sound.
Me either. If your sound sucks coming out of the PA, there are usually just two simple explainations for this.
1. Your sound sucks
2. Sound person is a dumbass and does not know how to use the PA.
Most small little clubs have a revolving door of "trainees" working under the table for 8-10 bucks an hour, or a flat rate of 60-75 a night.
The next level up, the bigger clubs usually cherry pick out of the local club sound people, and they provide professional curtious service. They also evolve into taking tours, and come and go. The tour guys that live in the area are usually the best pool of engineers. 3 of my main guys are tour guys, so I work around their tours. I also have myself (ex-tour-done and done) and a local monitor ringer for anything else.
Please will all you dumbass sound guys go find something else to do. Sell cars, or work for a collection agency. Stop giving good sound engineers a bad reputation.
And yes. I will take WHATEVER YOU WANT TO GIVE ME. It's your damn band. I don't care what your preference is, I can work with it. Thank you. Have a great show.
Our role is not "bass player" its "person bringing all these people off the damn street to drink/eat/whatever in your establishment", I have a lot of respect for a good soundman and most of the time, I'll tell the soundguy what I prefer and he agrees totally with me, other times, he'll give me advice and I'll take it on board as I see fit, usually, if its concerning the acoustics of the room or the likes, I'll try his way out, we've got plenty of time during soundcheck, if it works, great, we'll go with it, if not, we'll discuss it a little more and collectively come to a conclusion.
The problem arises when a soundman tries to tell the band how to sound, a soundguy refuses to use my own DI and insists I plug into the POS he has there to save him 30seconds? I tell him he plugs my DI in or he explains to the manager why theres no headlining band tonight, I want a little more low-mid on my tone and after 30seconds I notice he's turned it back down again, he's got to go explain to the manager... the problem isn't with suggestion, its with particular soundguys thinking they know what the band should sound like better than the band. Funny I've never had one of these arguments with a soundman who had a long standing good reputation, its always the jackass who doesn't have a clue what hes doing. As Jimmy said, its the five percenters.
