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What Would You Do? International Bass Purchase

#22
IanStephenson said:
It's illegal un UK for them to pass payment fees on to you, so they CAN'T ask you to pay cover the fees for PayPal or CC. (Card surcharge ban means no more nasty surprises for shoppers).
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From that article:

The ban on credit and debit card surcharges is effective across the EU from Saturday 13th January 2018, and will apply to all purchases made where the banks of the consumer and retailer are within the EEA. In the vast majority of other circumstances surcharges are capped at the cost to the retailer for processing the payment. The UK Government took the decision to also include other payment methods such as PayPal in the ban to further protect consumers.
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Seems like what the shop is doing is perfectly legal, unless there is some exception for paypal.
 
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#26
More and more, I am seeing signs in businesses of all types stating "A 3.5% fee will be added to all Credit Card and Debit Card purchases." Most of these are locally owned businesses, not chains. The small, "Mom & Pop" type businesses that are doing what they can to get by. I do my best to pay cash at these businesses, or in the case of my mechanic, write a check. It isn't always possible, but as I said, I'm seeing it a lot, and the trend is growing.

Personally, if the business is so worried about that lost income on the sale, they should put it out there on their website that they will be adding a certain percentage to the sale for Paypal purchases. This way they get all their money and the buyer is covered and protected. I think it's a crock, mind you, because I agree with the OP that accepting credit cards and payments like Paypal are a part of doing business in the modern world.

Personally, I think credit card companies are raking it in and almost criminally so. They charge insanely high interest to the people using the cards, and then they charge businesses processing fees on every transaction.
 
#29
retroXvertigo said:
I haven't purchased anything from that dealer.

I've gotten basses from a different UK dealer and they had me use a money wiring service (Wise) that made me a touch uneasy the first time.
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I'd be curious if the shop in question lists PayPal as an option. While some do, it's not all that common with UK/EU shops so it's likely they responded willing to make the exception. Many won't as it sounds like was the case with your experience.

But if it's the credit/debit card it seems like it should make no difference (they probably wouldn't even need to know it says "PayPal" on it - assuming it's still a Visa, etc).
 
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#30
From your post, it sounds like they state that they accept Paypal, is that the case? If so, then I'm inclined to agree with you, if not then I'm inclined to agree with them. CC on top of PP is double. Also, you asked what is the most economical way, I feel like ignoring the fee part is clearly not shooting for the most economical way.

This is where reputation comes in. If they have it, I'd do the cheapest route and if not then I'd definitely want more protection. I have been stating feeless payments and people and TBers still hit me up solely on feedback. Otherwise, I'd have to give in a fair bit more. But as it stands, it's not biggie for me to tell someone sorry but......

Granted for people in the same feedback boat up here as me, I've been shipping first and collecting later.......
 
#31
Are you also paying the shipping? You will also pay around 6% import duties. You're hitting the reverse situation of when Europeans see the great prices we have in the US, but then the complications of shipping, VAT, import duties, etc get in the way.
 
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#32
MingusBass said:
I was browsing a UK Bass merchant's website last night and discovered they had a new boutique bass in stock that happens to be rather difficult to get over here in the US because of no dealer here. I sent them an email about purchasing the bass because their website talks about needing a shipping quote if you're purchasing outside of the UK and that they can deduct 20% VAT off any new products being shipped outside the UK. In my email I asked them what the most convenient and economical way would be to purchase the bass but that I would prefer to use PayPal.

One of the gentlemen responded a few hours later that PayPal is fine but that I would have to send the payment friends and family, or I'd be responsible for the fees. I responded that I was planning on using my PayPal Cash Back card and that I was pretty sure I wouldn't be able to send the funds friends and family. On top of that, I told him that I didn't feel comfortable sending a friends and family payment when they are a business (not yet friends and certainly not family) and that I wouldn't have any recourse if there was any issue with this international purchase. He informed me that I had the option to send a wire transfer. Again, another form of payment where I wouldn't have any protection should there be an issue with the bass or it gets lost in transit from the UK to the US.

I certainly want to be fair, and I don't want to come off as entitled but I feel like if you're saying your business accepts PayPal as a payment option, then fees are simply a cost of doing business, just like credit card fees that they wouldn't be asking me to pay. You're a business, not friends and family. Asking me to send a payment friends and family or send a wire transfer so you're not hit with fees and I take all of the risk rubs me the wrong way. At the very least give me some incentive, perhaps a discount of some kind, to send a wire transfer or PayPal friends and family but so far that hasn't happened.

At the end of the day, they're entitled to do what they want with their business and I guess if I don't like their policy I can simply choose not to purchase the bass but I'm hoping we can find some middle ground where they get my money and I get the bass I'm after.

Do you think I'm being unreasonable? What would you do?
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If you want the bass enough to add three per cent or so, use PP G&S and add the fee. I've done that several times.
 
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#33
I could be wrong, but it sounds like they are an independent music store. One of the few left. If that's the case and I was in that situation, I would pay the fee. We are all upset that there aren't local guitar stores around anymore. I know that there are legalities and principles involved, but if the parties to the transaction are a gigging musician and a passionate small shop owner, I, personally, wouldn't worry about anyone being 'right.' Legally, they are a business, but only because that is what they have to do so that they can do what they do.
On the other hand, if it's a big box store, I would feel a bit more comfortable about sending a wire, etc, but if the fees were ~$100-200, I would consider it. Not because of the retailer, but the shipping provider.
This is all, just my humble opinion.
 
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#35
IME, the seller sets the terms in a sale, after that it's up to prospective buyers to accept those terms or try to negotiate a more favorable position, but the bottom line is the seller must agree to any deal before a prospective buyer becomes an actual buyer.
As for the terms OP described? I would keep looking but the basses i play can be had off the rack in most any music store so I have virtually unlimited options when it comes to bass acquisition. If OP can only be satisfied with a single bass model and that item is rare, they may need to roll the dice and hope for the best. Or learn to accept a more accessible instrument.
The only other alternative I see is to cover all fees associated with an international sale as it sounds like the seller is willing to make the sale but is unwilling to take the hit for any additional transaction fees.
 
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#37
MingusBass said:
I was browsing a UK Bass merchant's website last night and discovered they had a new boutique bass in stock that happens to be rather difficult to get over here in the US because of no dealer here. I sent them an email about purchasing the bass because their website talks about needing a shipping quote if you're purchasing outside of the UK and that they can deduct 20% VAT off any new products being shipped outside the UK. In my email I asked them what the most convenient and economical way would be to purchase the bass but that I would prefer to use PayPal.

One of the gentlemen responded a few hours later that PayPal is fine but that I would have to send the payment friends and family, or I'd be responsible for the fees. I responded that I was planning on using my PayPal Cash Back card and that I was pretty sure I wouldn't be able to send the funds friends and family. On top of that, I told him that I didn't feel comfortable sending a friends and family payment when they are a business (not yet friends and certainly not family) and that I wouldn't have any recourse if there was any issue with this international purchase. He informed me that I had the option to send a wire transfer. Again, another form of payment where I wouldn't have any protection should there be an issue with the bass or it gets lost in transit from the UK to the US.

I certainly want to be fair, and I don't want to come off as entitled but I feel like if you're saying your business accepts PayPal as a payment option, then fees are simply a cost of doing business, just like credit card fees that they wouldn't be asking me to pay. You're a business, not friends and family. Asking me to send a payment friends and family or send a wire transfer so you're not hit with fees and I take all of the risk rubs me the wrong way. At the very least give me some incentive, perhaps a discount of some kind, to send a wire transfer or PayPal friends and family but so far that hasn't happened.

At the end of the day, they're entitled to do what they want with their business and I guess if I don't like their policy I can simply choose not to purchase the bass but I'm hoping we can find some middle ground where they get my money and I get the bass I'm after.

Do you think I'm being unreasonable? What would you do?
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As a buyer, I wouldn't agree to this on a deal for A $300 bass let alone heaven knows how much for a Boutique version.

My standard thought is if you have to post on TB about a potential purchase, it's not for you. Trust that inner voice and walk away. There is alway a bass for sale every day 365 days a year and this isn't the only one. Just be patient.
 
#40
You are not being unreasonable. You have to watch out for YOUR best interest. No one else is.
1. Please don't use family & friends PayPal. Scammers use that where you can't get a refund. I say that from experience.
2 what can be done if the bass arrives not in the condition mentioned ? Pictures were from 3 years ago? Damaged during shipping? Well used "new demo" ?
Remember, " condition " is just a persons opinion. Learned that one from experience too.
I believe I would pass. I don't trust people very much. GC may not have what you want but you can take it back, no questions asked.
 

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