I don't think people hate that he is recommending his and Mr. Morton's books. They are mad because he is constantly recommending them as the only book that works.
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Double Bass What's the best beginner DB book?
- Thread starter Lorenzo
- Start date
I don't think people hate that he is recommending his and Mr. Morton's books. They are mad because he is constantly recommending them as the only book that works.
Sure it does. Look again at what you wrote about a book - mine - that you never even played or even looked at. It's all based on Simandl - 1, 2, 4 only better planned - whoops! Ignore those last 3 words... So, I guess that by your own statement, Simandl is dangerous? Simandl is "Bass Guitar technique? No, Its ALL about "getting it".
"or someone else with that techinque under their fingers I would say your advice is dangerous, self-serving and commercial.
It is really not something a person can get with a book, and it is just too easy for it to be interperated as "Bass Guitar techinque works".
- Because it has nothing to do with your method or it's value. It is about objectivity, the rules and your constant spam, yes spam. Everytime you reccomend your method it is a spamvertisment to buy your book.
It also has to do with the fact that the person who wrote the method cannot under any circumstances be objective in reccomending it.
We know you think it is the best book, or you would not have created it!
I'd love to get a copy one day, I would check it out, I am a big bass method geek, I even went through Bille doing 134.
My personal concept is that I will play out of every method I can get my hands on. I have not done much Nanny and Striecher only because I have not run a across a used copy of either.
Are you insane? You think he did this to gratify ego or get rich? Give yer head shake. Whether he or someone else recommends this book the fact remains it is worth consideration and that it being brought to our attention is a possitive thing. And the logic he thinks it's better than anything else is patently false...how much of your own work do you feel is better than than say Charles Mingus' simply because it is yours? In case it isn't becoming clear to you this isn't a contest...as much as you'd like to win one.
Every time it comes up he makes it a contest between his method and any other being discussed.
He says earlier:
"The best method is mine, skip Simandl". My view is much more so that there is no contest between methods, and that one does not unseat the other.
Thanks for the review.
If this had been the initial recommendation, I don't think anyone would be complaining.I think that at this point, that might be a good idea. As the site gets bigger and bigger, more and more people from both sides of the board are keeping a close eye on the CUP and its implementation. The easiest and best way to avoid all of the complication and unpleasantness connected to people questioning a poster's intentions is for anyone directly connected to a commercial product for sale to put a disclosure in their user title (Paul can help with this), and then follow the forumwide guidelines when posting about that product. In Tom's case, this wouldn't mean that he couldn't post about his method, but rather that he could only respond to questions about it rather than initiating discussion of it. Paul has done a nice job with the rules for commercial users, and they are designed to avoid awkward situations that promote the kind of divisiveness that started to happen here. I certainly don't want to "run off" anyone who has a product or service to offer, and neither does Paul; rather, the idea is to provide guidelines that will hopefully be fair to everyone and avoid the complications that are bound to occur when products for sale are involved (and the arguments that are likely to ensue when issue is taken regarding intentions of posts by someone with a product or service to offer).
As to the thread topic at hand, I think that students should begin with the basics of technique with whatever method they and their teachers feel is appropriate, and then examine as many of the other techniques out there as possible and decide what works for them. Simandl is the "norm" and is a good starting place for many, but not the only starting place. If the teacher can execute and illustrate the techniques he/she is teaching, he or she should teach whatever they believe is in the best interests of the student. YMMV
[QUOTE=Chris Fitzgerald;4411166 In Tom's case, this wouldn't mean that he couldn't post about his method, but rather that he could only respond to questions about it rather than initiating discussion of it.
My understanding was that I was responding to a question asking advice on a beginning method - the very first thread #1? So I had a little tounge in cheek - lets get some discussion going. Then my book gets attacked by someone who never played it or even looked at the cover!
I think I'll take a little time off and think this through.
Tom Gale
My understanding was that I was responding to a question asking advice on a beginning method - the very first thread #1? So I had a little tounge in cheek - lets get some discussion going. Then my book gets attacked by someone who never played it or even looked at the cover!
I think I'll take a little time off and think this through.
Tom Gale
Simandl worked for me and for most other bass players. I think consulting the teacher first will be the best way to find what will work for the student. Whatever method is used doesn't really matter as long as there is proper guidance from a seasoned teacher.
IMO, the best thing about Simandl is the music. Even though some of the excercises sound dreary, they do really help you get into tune, I use them with many different fingerings and even transpose certain exercises to other keys.
The biggest problem with "more musical" or "more interesting" methods is that the music is just not as effective as Simandl.
Most modern players of any genre will come to use the principles the ASODB calls Simandl plus:
http://asodb.com/sp/sp1.html
If not through them, then through Petracchi, Rabbath, Franke and others.
Simandl's fingering system has obvious limits, but for fundamental Jazz, folk, rock and even classical bass playing they work well - as DR. Morton states.
Anyone who's musical ideas or responsibilties need to trancend them is going to figure out how.
Most serious teachers will have multiple methods at their disposal. This page includes a list of all the Methods in the collection of Fredrick Zimmerman:
http://www.nypl.org/research/manuscripts/music/muszimmermann.xml
My first reaction to reading your question was "OMG don't start by yourself, you can teach yourself some terrible muscle habits that will take months to correct!" There is so much that you can misinterpret when method books tell you how to hold the bass and bow. Working with a living breathing teacher who can guide you to pain-free efficient and beautiful playing is worth every penny.
Stay in touch with your teacher. Follow his/her advice about "getting a head start".
Stay in touch with your teacher. Follow his/her advice about "getting a head start".
Darn right! Being a bass method (none of them ever to be named) composer isn't what its cracked up to be. You can't leave the house without the dozens of paparazzi following you and screaming, "Look here, look here!" Then you see the National Inquirer and read where you are having an affair with Paris Hilton or Laura Bush. You walk out on stage with the symphony and the audience starts chanting your name. Your life becomes a living hell.........
Tom Gale
unlisted.com
AND, I forgot to mention the most embarrassing moments of all to a double bass composer of unnamed things (5) - when you walk into a restaurant or store and women start throwing their panties at you...Its Hell!
Tom Unlisted
Unlisted.org
I know, I know. I work rigging and lighting in the film, theatre and live music biz and it's a very similar glamorous but lonely existence. I truly feel for you. I find a false mustache helps a lot...I even wear it out in public sometimes too.
THANK YOU! It works! I slipped out the back door with a fake heavy black beard and carrying a trumpet case under my arm. It Works!!
Tom, the Bearded
Hair.net
Just happy the pup could help out the ol' dawg.....er, the bearded ol' dawg that is. Freedom is a wunnerful thing.
And the ol' dawg thanks you again! It's great to put on my disguise, slip out the back door and right by the dozens of papparazzi. Also, it's SO relaxing to walk into a party or restaurant and not be hit with a hail of women's panties - although I think I'm starting to miss that just a little.
So, now I have time to do some very minor editing on these unnamed things lying around the house. Thanks again!
Tom Gale
Backtonormal.com
Hey guys, can I jump back to the basic thread? But I must say, it has been a very interesting read! Not what I expected when began reading the posts!
Like many have said, find a good teacher. Seems like you might have. Wait, find two good teachers. Or three! THere are some great teachers out there, but not one person can teach you everything you need to knwo about bass playing, let alone in a useful way for you personally to understand everything they are trying to teach! I hope I am making sense. Never get dragged into a situation where you take weekly lessons every week for $40+ an hour. After 2 months you will be learning very little at each lesson, at least as a beginner. Go to a new teacher, and it will be completely new! Once you get in a rut with him/her, take a break from the lessons, or go back to the old guy.
It worked with me very well in my classical guitar days.
Just something to think about.
Like many have said, find a good teacher. Seems like you might have. Wait, find two good teachers. Or three! THere are some great teachers out there, but not one person can teach you everything you need to knwo about bass playing, let alone in a useful way for you personally to understand everything they are trying to teach! I hope I am making sense. Never get dragged into a situation where you take weekly lessons every week for $40+ an hour. After 2 months you will be learning very little at each lesson, at least as a beginner. Go to a new teacher, and it will be completely new! Once you get in a rut with him/her, take a break from the lessons, or go back to the old guy.
It worked with me very well in my classical guitar days.
Just something to think about.
