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What's the deal with IR?

B

BassmanNate

Apr 10, 2006
280
290
#1
So, a little background. When I first heard about impulse response 10ish years ago, it was mostly for things like reverb. You could model a particular space using an IR. Could see that it was going to be a big thing in that space.

Fast forward to the last couple of months and I've started looking at analog/discrete digital individual pedals and see that now it's mostly being pushed for speaker cab simulation. I can see for guitars where a particular cab is going to interact with the amplifier it's plugged into. But for bass? Does it really have that much impact on your tone?

This isn't me mocking anyone. I legitimately want to understand. All of the cab sims I've messed with on bass haven't been IR to my knowledge and I've felt mostly meh about it. Even stuff that's supposed to model a particular cab hasn't been impressive. Is IR that much better?
 
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#9
scuzzy said:
i have the sonicake and a free set of IR's I downloaded online and it sounds great. i don't think you need to spend a bunch on this stuff.
Click to expand...
Another budget option is Mooer Radar. It has also EQ and power amp sim if you want try those. Check free Shift Line IR's where my favorite is Mesa RR215.

Cab sim can be used mixed with line signal to taste.
 
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#10
BassmanNate said:
Got it. Maybe I'll pick up a cheap IR pedal like the sonicake sometime just to play with. See what I can load on it and judge without spending too much.
Click to expand...

I have the sonicake and it's a good introduction to IR, love it has a DI and is easy to load your own files into, but its latency is higher than I can play with (IIRC, about 9ms), especially if you have other digital pedals in the chain.

I replaced it with a NUX (can't remember the model, but it's pink) with a latency of about 1ms.

Cab models are fun, but I think it's better to model other parts of the signal chain.

Mine is set up at the head of my swiss-army board and I've modelled a few of my bass preamps (old trace, little GK, ampeg fliptop), as well as created IRs of my acoustic guitars to recreate the sound of a mic'd AG live.
 
#11
newfuture said:
I have the sonicake and it's a good introduction to IR, love it has a DI and is easy to load your own files into, but its latency is higher than I can play with (IIRC, about 9ms), especially if you have other digital pedals in the chain.

I replaced it with a NUX (can't remember the model, but it's pink) with a latency of about 1ms.

Cab models are fun, but I think it's better to model other parts of the signal chain.

Mine is set up at the head of my swiss-army board and I've modelled a few of my bass preamps (old trace, little GK, ampeg fliptop), as well as created IRs of my acoustic guitars to recreate the sound of a mic'd AG live.
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The little pink NUX IR is a great pedal for such a small amount of money, I keep one in my gigging bag just in case there's some massive problems at a gig, and it has guitar cabs for if a guitarist is having problems too.

I agree that bass cab IRs are probably less distinctive than those for guitar, but being able to switch to something like a B15 cab but at a huge amount more volume, or a big 8x10 cab with a lot lower output can be really handy. Do they sound the same as being stood near to the real cab? No, but that's not really what they're trying to be.
 
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#12
I have the Celestion Pulse IR's, Bergantino IR's and several others and what I've learned is that the quality of the PA you are using makes the biggest influence on the end result. A low end PA is going to have a different challenge than that of a high end PA. A high end system is going to sound so much better because of the quality of the components, but you still have to play around and find out which IR sounds the best, no easy task because this does not always translate from home/studio to venue. In the end, I chose no IR's. 99% or my shows are ampless, I stopped using IR's because the sound through our PA with my Fractal FM3/Genzler Preamp setup is fantastic on it's own. It took may sound checks to come to this conclusion. However I have options programmed in. If I have/need to use just my FM3, I have patches setup with IR's and without, so that I have the ability to make a decision on the fly depending on the venue.

FWIW, The IR's that we have shot of my guitar players rig with the Axe3 have been better that anything purchased. This is because we can place the mic of our choice at the place on the cone that we think sound the best and the result is exactly what we want.
 
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#13
For me and my sound live I mostly prefer to skip the IR and rely on high/low pass filters to fine tune the low end and calm down overdrive/distortion/fuzz and make it a bit more presentable. IR just sucks too much out for my IEMs, I normally need a bit more presence than what is left after an IR to be comfortable (probably just because that is what I'm used to). I probably will give them another shot in the future, but it just didn't work for me like I thought it would. My only experience has also been using the HX Stomp and the IRs I have loaded in myself.
 
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#16
To my understanding, this is more for people who want to use a "cab-less" setup on stage or in a studio and just want to run your board straight into the mixing board and or the FOH. So if you are playing through a amp n cab setup on a stage or in a practice space, IR's aren't really going to do you much good and or aren't needed. To my limited understanding...
 
#17
I'm using modelers for years and I'm not using an IR when playing in a band. I like it for when I'm playing alone at home, and not always. Totally different for guitars as IR (or other type of cab sims) are mandatory.
 
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#18
Derek Williams said:
Just remember that an IR is meant to replicate recording a mic'ed cab, it's not meant to sound like the cab itself so you shouldn't directly compare the sound in the room.
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It can be either. Most of the coloration comes from the cab part of the IR if it's a combined cab/mic sim, other than some possible proximity effect from the mic.

IR's tend to model all the behavior of a cab - the low pass part (that's helpful on hiss and removing fizz from dirt) and the high pass part (aka low cut). All commercially available bass cabs cut the low end to some extent - some much more than others. If you're playing a 4 string bass in a club, the low cut is of no real concern, and may be to your advantage if you use it as a high pass for your bass amp. If you play 6's or 6's, and play in venues with very capable PA's, the low cut of a cab sim can get in the way of having really solid fundamentals for your lowest notes. For that reason, I use a high cut filter as my "defizz/cab sim". I do have a high pass filter in thye chain, but it's set really low to just catch subsonic stuff - 17.5 Hz.
 
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#19
I’ve tried IRs on a bass signal chain. If recording you can hear the differences soloed although they’re fairly subtle once they’re in a mix. (Or at least to my ears they are.) I’ve tried using them live and I didn’t hear anything I couldn’t already get with an HPF and LPF, a parametric EQ, or a really good preamp.

Truth is, I’m in the “just sounds good” camp and prefer to take a minimalist approach most times. I think with bass it’s more important to find a good sound you know inside out and can work with for pretty much everything rather than be constantly switching between minute tonal differences, most of which won’t be that audible most times, assuming they are at all.

With higher range instruments different IRs are far more noticeable and probably something worth exploring in depth if you also play guitar. But for bass, my experience (so far) has been that they’re not that big a deal. But that might be just me.

However, if you do want to get into IRs I’d suggest what others have already suggested and start with something inexpensive like the Sonicake or (my personal preference) the Mooer Radar. Neither are without limitations and minor bugs. But they’re not priced like a Kemper or Cortex are. And they do work surprisingly well…um…for guitar ;)

Here’s a couple of good reviews to help you decide. Find the Sonicake review here, and the Mooer Radar one here.

Happy modeling. :)
 
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#20
RobD_BritBass said:
The little pink NUX IR is a great pedal for such a small amount of money, I keep one in my gigging bag just in case there's some massive problems at a gig, and it has guitar cabs for if a guitarist is having problems too.

I agree that bass cab IRs are probably less distinctive than those for guitar, but being able to switch to something like a B15 cab but at a huge amount more volume, or a big 8x10 cab with a lot lower output can be really handy. Do they sound the same as being stood near to the real cab? No, but that's not really what they're trying to be.
Click to expand...

I should mention that my ideal bass sound is a clean front end going into an 1176 into studio monitors, so the cab IRs are less useful to me than say getting the pre-shape button of a trace without having to lug the amp.

I really love having the three banks on the NUX. One is set up for bass, another acoustic, the last electric.

I should also mention that more often than not this thing does not get used for bass, but acoustic guitar. It is a wonderful tool for getting rid of under saddle piezo quack
 
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